helmets from Why wear black?

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Mike Sales
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by Mike Sales »

horizon wrote:
You are right, they won't be banned, but it was a great suggestion and it deserved, IMV, a different response.


There is a better case for banning seat belts and all the other devices which make dangerous driving safer for those in cars.
After all, cyclist and pedestrian casualties increased as drivers became less vulnerable.

http://www.john-adams.co.uk/2013/03/24/the-biggest-lie/
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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NUKe
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by NUKe »

You only have to remove one thing, the nut behind the wheel.
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niggle
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by niggle »

NUKe wrote:You only have to remove one thing, the nut behind the wheel.

Yup. Here is one way to do that: viewtopic.php?p=1444355#p1444336
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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by Cunobelin »

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mattheus
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by mattheus »

Careful! That will become a "strawman" before you know it :P
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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by Cunobelin »

mattheus wrote:Careful! That will become a "strawman" before you know it :P


What about a Wicker Man?



12 points and .....

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BlueRider
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by BlueRider »

Ban helmets and hi vis?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:shock: Bonkers.
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mjr
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by mjr »

mattheus wrote:Banning hi-viz (or helmets, or stab-vests, or anything else that is a little over-the-top, but doesn't directly harm anyone else) is
NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN in the UK. (fog lights are illegal in good vis, but no-one ever gets pulled for that! :P )

So Utility'Cs campaign is irrelevant. I suspect he's just grandstanding - there is a lot of sense in his views.

It is not IMO worth dwelling on, if anyone wants to actually have an open debate about road safety and rights.

I wouldn't be so sure it will never happen. Motorists aren't allowed to wear full F1 helmets and harnesses: they reduce injuries in a collision but the reduced visibility/mobility prevents good driving and increases crash risk. If someone discovers what negates the testable physical protection of cycle helmets and it's unsolvable and makes them a net harm, they may also be banned one day.
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mikeymo
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by mikeymo »

BlueRider wrote:Ban helmets and hi vis?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:shock: Bonkers.


If they were banned it would make it possible to have "population wide studies" into the effect of non helmet use.
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Mick F
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by Mick F »

mattheus wrote: ..........(fog lights are illegal in good vis, but no-one ever gets pulled for that! :P ) ...........
Oh yes they do.

A very good mate of mine was pulled over by the rozzers for fog lights on in good vis.
He received three penalty points and a £60 fine.
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Mike Sales
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by Mike Sales »

mikeymo wrote:If they were banned it would make it possible to have "population wide studies" into the effect of non helmet use.


I think that the step change in Australia from about a third wearing to near one hundred percent gave us a good indication of efficacy.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
fastpedaller
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by fastpedaller »

Mick F wrote:
mattheus wrote: ..........(fog lights are illegal in good vis, but no-one ever gets pulled for that! :P ) ...........
Oh yes they do.

A very good mate of mine was pulled over by the rozzers for fog lights on in good vis.
He received three penalty points and a £60 fine.

get less for knocking down a cyclist. What a crazy Country (World) we live in.
mikeymo
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by mikeymo »

Mike Sales wrote:
mikeymo wrote:If they were banned it would make it possible to have "population wide studies" into the effect of non helmet use.


I think that the step change in Australia from about a third wearing to near one hundred percent gave us a good indication of efficacy.


Quite possibly, as this paper states so unambiguously:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0001457596000164?via%3Dihub

Her analysis of the New South Wales statistics especially is particularly robust, I'm sure you'll agree. Though I expect you've read the paper I link to above.

Still, it would be useful*, don't you think, to have a comparable study, or studies? At the moment we've got longitudinal studies where the situation changed from no MHL to MHL. We don't have the "no MHL to helmets being proscribed" studies. It would be interesting to see the various "suggestions" (what the epidemiologists might call confounding variables) as to the cause of any effect of helmets actually being banned.

*of course a change in the law purely for the purposes of doing a study wouldn't get past the ethics board. Or through parliament, I would hope.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by The utility cyclist »

Those of us that don't/never have worn helmets are essentially the robust data that makes banning helmets a logical solution that should take the choice out of the populations hands. If you chuck in a ban on hi-vis then we know that will massively increase the amount of time police and government both locally and nationally will spend on looking elsewhere. Considering all the crimes plod must have resolved to be spending so much time and effort on handing out hi-vis and BS regarding helmets they can't have anything else to do so must have to then get onto the main problem of the roads because there's nowt else for them to resolve :roll:

That extra focus on motorists due to not spending time on harassing people on bikes will increase the safety of motorists, pedestrians, cyclists and equestrians.

So banning helmets is not just good for cyclists, it would also reduce the NHS bill by billions, reduce pollution, reduce the heartache for thousands of families, how can we not ban them, frankly it's socially irresponsible to wear them, and as CUK normalises the wearing of helmets and hi-vis with their continual displaying of helmets in their photos and events and by not condemning helmet wearing are also socially irresponsible and complicit.
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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Post by Cunobelin »

The utility cyclist wrote:Those of us that don't/never have worn helmets are essentially the robust data that makes banning helmets a logical solution that should take the choice out of the populations hands. If you chuck in a ban on hi-vis then we know that will massively increase the amount of time police and government both locally and nationally will spend on looking elsewhere. Considering all the crimes plod must have resolved to be spending so much time and effort on handing out hi-vis and BS regarding helmets they can't have anything else to do so must have to then get onto the main problem of the roads because there's nowt else for them to resolve :roll:

That extra focus on motorists due to not spending time on harassing people on bikes will increase the safety of motorists, pedestrians, cyclists and equestrians.

So banning helmets is not just good for cyclists, it would also reduce the NHS bill by billions, reduce pollution, reduce the heartache for thousands of families, how can we not ban them, frankly it's socially irresponsible to wear them, and as CUK normalises the wearing of helmets and hi-vis with their continual displaying of helmets in their photos and events and by not condemning helmet wearing are also socially irresponsible and complicit.


Potentially out of date, but Meyer Hillman's "Cycle helmet - Friend or Foe is an interesting read.
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