Pay

For discussions within the Cycle Training profession.
Vorpal
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Re: Pay

Postby Vorpal » 14 Feb 2020, 2:42pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
So as a cycling instructor (whatever that job entails) as I said further up post suitable only for-
Retired financially well off. / those who want to do low paid work for the Samaritan good feeling factor.
The employer relies on the fact that the naive / uninformed, taker of these jobs, will be unaware of what expenses will be involved with out any benefits, will be led into subsidizing through their other income?

I do feel many people are not aware of what adhoc part time work actually means.

Actually, I think most people who do adhoc part time work are aware, and either cannot work normal full time hours, or have not been able to get better working conditions.

In my case, I needed some flexibility in how much I worked, and no possibility to work full time. Bikeability seemed much better to me than most of the alternatives, and I have to admit that I enjoyed it.

We were not financially well off, though we managed okay as long as Mr. V was working. When he lost his job, one of us had to get a job that could support a family.

TBH, the options are pretty limited for folks who cannot work a full time job, for whatever reason. Unless they have a good professional/expert reputation in something to the point that they can do consulting or something.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Pay

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 14 Feb 2020, 8:39pm

Hi,
pedals2slowly wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
So as a cycling instructor (whatever that job entails) as I said further up post suitable only for-
Retired financially well off. / those who want to do low paid work for the Samaritan good feeling factor.

I think I understand your opinion, however it feels rather condescending.
It may appear so, but actually there are lots of instructors I work with who are earning enough to live on.
There are others who fill in with other jobs, so earn enough to live on.
There are others who have child care commitments and so working within school hours/term time is great.
For myself I have a family commitment that doesn't allow full time work. The hours I work suit me and I am not retired nor financially well off.
I wouldn't do it if it wasn't paid, I enjoy it.

The problem is nationwide and not confined to Bikeability- all the unpaid volunteers clearing footpaths, picking litter, driving people to hospital, volunteer lifeboatmen, firefighters etc. Helpers in any capacity are subsidising the state and denying people full time jobs. I don't think NSI's are going to change the national system that we have in place. At least we are paid an OK hourly rate, and you like it or lump it.

Anyone any proposals to help make it a more professional career????

Sorry if it came out that way, I apologize.
I understand that some will do this to fill in time / extra income / voluntary.
The point is that these so called important jobs should have employed status with benefits, like all the jobs subsiding the state, through donations / voluntary work etc.
I suppose this is a problem with part time work all over, is that its not livable unless you have another income.
I am not 100% sure what benefits part time worker have in the UK, but in the past its not been good, especially when people are laid off only to be re-employed next day with different rights to escape the binefits that a longer spell of employment mean.

Any way what is the rate hourly for cycle instructors in UK on part time status, if it was full then all benefits would be forthcoming.

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gaz
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Re: Pay

Postby gaz » 16 Feb 2020, 1:19am

Union representation? https://iwgb.org.uk/post/5e3925da26f26/ ... tors-deman

With my job situation somewhat up in the air at the moment, training as a cycle instructor is very much on my list of things to consider, albeit marked with a rather large maybe. The initial out of pocket cost is not insignificant, it is extremely unlikely to pay enough on its own. The maybe arises from a struggle to understand how to fit it around another job coupled with an awareness that some income is better than no income.
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Vorpal
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Re: Pay

Postby Vorpal » 16 Feb 2020, 1:38am

gaz wrote:Union representation? https://iwgb.org.uk/post/5e3925da26f26/ ... tors-deman

With my job situation somewhat up in the air at the moment, training as a cycle instructor is very much on my list of things to consider, albeit marked with a rather large maybe. The initial out of pocket cost is not insignificant, it is extremely unlikely to pay enough on its own. The maybe arises from a struggle to understand how to fit it around another job coupled with an awareness that some income is better than no income.

Some employers will pay for the training. Essex CC paid for mine.
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Si
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Re: Pay

Postby Si » 16 Feb 2020, 10:00am

Another thing to consider is the ir35 stuff. When I did bikeability in schools I was self employed but the gov's new ir35 tool thinks I'm actually employed for pay/tax purposes.

Tinpotflowers
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Re: Pay

Postby Tinpotflowers » 17 Feb 2020, 3:55pm


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pjclinch
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Re: Pay

Postby pjclinch » 20 Feb 2020, 12:39pm

Si wrote:The govt have made noises about every kid in the country getting bikeability......you have to wonder where all the instructors are going to be found.


Same place as the new nurses, I imagine, they'll just magically appear if we're suitably optimistic.

Though not so much like the nurses I wouldn't be surprised if cost projections involve paying peanuts, because that's been the general case to date. If it's going to be greatly expended it needs to get more professional though, and that hopefully means paying proper money (though even with that it will look attractive for box-ticking compared to genuinely costly stuff like decent infra).

(data point for pay, up in Tayside I'd get £30/hour for delivering instructor training or mentoring, L2 and L1 delivery I did effectively as a parent volunteer at my own kids' school. The money was for occasional days, not regular gigs I could pay for a life with)

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Tinpotflowers
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Re: Pay

Postby Tinpotflowers » 20 Feb 2020, 5:02pm

pjclinch wrote:
Si wrote:The govt have made noises about every kid in the country getting bikeability......you have to wonder where all the instructors are going to be found.


Same place as the new nurses, I imagine, they'll just magically appear if we're suitably optimistic.

Though not so much like the nurses I wouldn't be surprised if cost projections involve paying peanuts, because that's been the general case to date. If it's going to be greatly expended it needs to get more professional though, and that hopefully means paying proper money (though even with that it will look attractive for box-ticking compared to genuinely costly stuff like decent infra).

(data point for pay, up in Tayside I'd get £30/hour for delivering instructor training or mentoring, L2 and L1 delivery I did effectively as a parent volunteer at my own kids' school. The money was for occasional days, not regular gigs I could pay for a life with)Pete.



I have told first hand by a cycle training provider they had trained a large number of nurses and teacher etc to be instructors but they never put it in too practice because that was not their real job and unless you do all the time and are a regular cyclist you are not any good at it.
Last edited by Vorpal on 20 Feb 2020, 9:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fix quotes

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pjclinch
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Re: Pay

Postby pjclinch » 20 Feb 2020, 5:40pm

Tinpotflowers wrote:I have told first hand by a cycle training provider they had trained a large number of nurses and teacher etc to be instructors but they never put it in too practice because that was not their real job and unless you do all the time and are a regular cyclist you are not any good at it.


It depends. Schools and workplaces often rely on a "Cycling Champion" to get things going and if you train them up it really pays dividends. These are the exceptions more than the rules, but they are there.

The 2018 Cycling Scotland conference was in Dundee and I volunteered to ride shotgun on a study tour (obviously you can't trust delegates at a national cycling cnference to be able to ride a bike safely without an accredited Ride Leader...). One of the stops was a local high school that has been doing good cycling things, and the driving force behind it all turned out to be a chap I'd trained up a couple of years before.

But your main point remains: a lot of people who get trained up find that in reality they don't have the time. This currently applies to me too: though I'm taking a break anyway until such time as local providers will let me teach in normal clothes, right now I'm too busy with the day-job to do much.

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pjclinch
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Re: Pay

Postby pjclinch » 20 Feb 2020, 5:51pm

Vorpal wrote:Some employers will pay for the training. Essex CC paid for mine.


At least around here (Dundee, Scotland) it's very easy to get free training. I originally got my 4-day Cycle Trainer course paid up by a local cycling advocacy charity I volunteered for, subsequent Cycle Ride Leader, Workplace Cycle Instructor, Cycle Trainer Mentor and Cycle Trainer Plus (training trainers) all freebies through Cycling Scotland. I'm also a Scottish Cycling level 2 coach paid for by the JCC my kids went to and I helped out at. Last first aid course was paid by the local Cycle Forum, and the previous couple by the JCC.

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