Government targeting wood and coal burning.

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francovendee
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Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby francovendee » 21 Feb 2020, 8:44am

The crack down on emissions from these fuels will mean many people give up heating their homes with these fuels.
I know one member of this parish who heats his home using wood cut from his land and I suspect there are many like him.
The plan is to force people to use wood from an accredited supplier. Coal must be in a manufactured smokeless form.
In cities where there are other forms of heating logs or coal are just a nice to have, so it makes sense to ban them.
In rural areas you don't have town gas, solid fuel, oil or electricity are the only choices.
If a significant number of people switch to electricity will the grid be able to supply enough in a cold winter?
I'm all for clean air but isn't this another example of the government picking the low hanging fruit. Tackling industry, transport would be harder but have a bigger effect to achieving cleaner air.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 21 Feb 2020, 8:49am

One can cut plenty of wood and leave it to dry for many months, no need to buy firewood
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iandriver
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby iandriver » 21 Feb 2020, 8:52am

My understanding is they are only banning the sale of it, not the burning, so wood cut from your own land you can still burn. I guess if you buy it, then the supplier will simply switch to a legal version to sell. No idea what the price difference is though.
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Ben@Forest
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Ben@Forest » 21 Feb 2020, 8:59am

iandriver wrote:My understanding is they are only banning the sale of it, not the burning, so wood cut from your own land you can still burn. I guess if you buy it, then the supplier will simply switch to a legal version to sell. No idea what the price difference is though.


It's a non-story. Most firewood suppliers sell seasoned or even kiln-dried firewood already, suppliers who sell green wood get no repeat custom. The only interesting development could be if the government apply a legal certification to firewood, i.e. to prove it is below a certain moisture content. That would put the price up.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Oldjohnw » 21 Feb 2020, 9:06am

Cyril Haearn wrote:One can cut plenty of wood and leave it to dry for many months, no need to buy firewood



Where?
John

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 21 Feb 2020, 9:10am

Oldjohnw wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:One can cut plenty of wood and leave it to dry for many months, no need to buy firewood



Where?

The person of this parish has lots of trees to cut down and lots of room to store wood
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661-Pete
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby 661-Pete » 21 Feb 2020, 9:15am

I've been told that in some countries (Germany?) you have to let your cut firewood season for two years before you can legally burn it.

Certainly in France, we let our wood (all of it cut from our own garden) dry out for many months before it goes in the fireplace. Not necessarily for two years though. It burns very well.

But we have no use for firewood or coal in the UK. Some of our friends have, but not us. Yet we have a gas boiler and gas central heating - I suppose that ought to be changed out. It probably produces more CO2 than any number of wood fires.

I remember we once, on a trip to France, filled our car with logs cut from a tree in our garden here in the UK, to burn in the cheminée there. Probably highly illegal, but we got away with it. The logs would have been too big to go in the shredder.

Yes, I think the Govt. has picked the wrong target. Of course most families with wood or coal fires in their homes will be affluent middle-class, won't they? Not the 'white working-class' voters whom the Tories are so anxious to woo - and cling on to?
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reohn2
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby reohn2 » 21 Feb 2020, 9:40am

It's not the just burning of,it's where those fuels are burned,it's the same as allowing ICE powered vehicles into town and city centres.
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Ben@Forest
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Ben@Forest » 21 Feb 2020, 9:50am

661-Pete wrote:I've been told that in some countries (Germany?) you have to let your cut firewood season for two years before you can legally burn it.


Pretty sure that's not true. But it is true that in Germany firewood has to be below a certain moisture content, 20% l think. But you can do that if you're using waste heat from another process, which makes a time limit a nonsense.

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mjr
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby mjr » 21 Feb 2020, 9:53am

francovendee wrote:The crack down on emissions from these fuels [...]

What crack down on emissions? All I heard of was outlawing some fuels. You can still burn good fuel with bad settings and pollute. This government is avoiding the real issue and taking the cheapskate option for them. We need more monitoring officers and testing to even begin to tackle this.
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Pastychomper
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Pastychomper » 21 Feb 2020, 10:15am

Ben@Forest wrote:It's a non-story. Most firewood suppliers sell seasoned or even kiln-dried firewood already, suppliers who sell green wood get no repeat custom. The only interesting development could be if the government apply a legal certification to firewood, i.e. to prove it is below a certain moisture content. That would put the price up.


Certification would also favour large businesses over small ones, since any changes needed for certification would be a smaller proportion of turnover. Consequences may or may not include more energy spent transporting logs (centralised processing), disproportionate price increases for buyers in remote locations, and greater dividends for anyone with shares in a large wood-processing company.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Oldjohnw » 21 Feb 2020, 10:19am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:One can cut plenty of wood and leave it to dry for many months, no need to buy firewood



Where?

The person of this parish has lots of trees to cut down and lots of room to store wood


Ah. No such luck on my neighbourhood.
John

Psamathe
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Psamathe » 21 Feb 2020, 10:25am

mjr wrote:
francovendee wrote:The crack down on emissions from these fuels [...]

What crack down on emissions? All I heard of was outlawing some fuels. You can still burn good fuel with bad settings and pollute. This government is avoiding the real issue and taking the cheapskate option for them. We need more monitoring officers and testing to even begin to tackle this.

+1

Reports I've heard refer to buying coal and wood in bags (less than 2 cu m) and how many of the "problem causing" homes buy their wood in quantities below 2 cu m? Buy larger quantities and you'll have to be given "advice" on drying the wood! Maybe the report I heard was wrong.

And what about enforcement?

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pwa
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby pwa » 21 Feb 2020, 10:32am

francovendee wrote:The crack down on emissions from these fuels will mean many people give up heating their homes with these fuels.
I know one member of this parish who heats his home using wood cut from his land and I suspect there are many like him.
The plan is to force people to use wood from an accredited supplier. Coal must be in a manufactured smokeless form.
In cities where there are other forms of heating logs or coal are just a nice to have, so it makes sense to ban them.
In rural areas you don't have town gas, solid fuel, oil or electricity are the only choices.
If a significant number of people switch to electricity will the grid be able to supply enough in a cold winter?
I'm all for clean air but isn't this another example of the government picking the low hanging fruit. Tackling industry, transport would be harder but have a bigger effect to achieving cleaner air.

I bet there will be exceptions for folk who burn wood from their own woodland. And they will tend to be folk living out in low density areas of housing anyway. I'm in Wales so this won't affect me immediately, but if and when it is taken up by the Welsh Government I'm hoping my supplier gets the stamp of approval. His wood is always bone dry. He doesn't let it out until it is ready. And he is local so in the past I have popped down there on the bike and ordered after a bit of a chat about bikes. I get between 6 and 10 cubic metres at a time. But looking at it generally, burning wood that isn't properly dry is poor practice and if it is happening a lot somewhere (it isn't here) it needs to stop.

If you dry your own wood it needs proper cutting and stacking, then it needs a minimum of 12 months protected from rain but with good exposure to the air. Longer would be better.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Government targeting wood and coal burning.

Postby Tangled Metal » 21 Feb 2020, 10:34am

From another forum based on accurate reporting of the plan.

[*]Sales of bagged traditional house coal will be phased out by February 2021, and the sale of loose coal direct to customers will end by 2023
[*]Sales of wet wood in small units (less than 2m3) will be phased out from February 2021. Wet wood in volumes greater than 2m3 will also have to be sold with advice on how to dry it before burning
[*]Makers of solid fuels will also need to show they have a very low sulphur content and only emit a small amount of smoke.


As to using wood I doubt if you source your own from your or a mates wood then you're not going to be covered by this.

The advice I've read is a three year cycle. One advice was first year stacked in the open in a way that air circulates freely to take out some moisture. Then year under a shelter after splitting and then a final year cut up and stacked open to the air.

Of course depends on wood type and starting moisture content I reckon. Never had to do it since all wood supply was dry. Later on my parents got more in and left it a year to make sure. I tried to avoid dealing with it but obviously had to wield an axe or maul if I didn't disappear quickly enough.

As to who burns wood and coal in the country it's probably still common for heat and hot water. I had a great aunt and uncle who were certainly not middle class affluent do just that. It isn't uncommon or wasn't.