Homeopathy, does it work?

[roubaixtuesday]

It is a bit like signalling when driving, hard to prove someone did *not* do something, hard to prove homeopathy does not work
Whatabout placebos?

I am interested but ignorant, do not know much, did a bit of biology at school, never been sick much

Hope this thread does not get locked, the b***t thread was locked, is still I hope (+1!), that is enough

There is a mass pandemic in progress, caused by a virus.

We understand how viruses impact, in exactly the same way we understand how jumping of a cliff would impact you. That understanding informs the actions necessary to stop or delay the virus.

This virus will kill hundreds of thousands of British people unless we take those necessary actions.

We also understand that homeopathy will have not prevent or cure a virus, in the same way that we understand that homeopathy will not prevent or cure the injuries you would sustain by jumping off a cliff.

[moderated]

Enough of this nonsense. There is a real crisis which requires properly informed action, to prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths.

[thatsnotmyname]

I doubt that you’ll get an appropriate answer here. The ‘Scientific Community’ have decided that Homeopathy doesn’t work for anything at any time and never did - anyone who says different is simply making things up and very dangerous. You just need to run along and accept their word for it, they’re all very clever and qualified people who know what’s best for you.

The best thing that could be done with this thread is to lock it, it serves no useful purpose and is only a medium for trashing and expressing hate towards differing views.

Simple question for you: Let's say you or one of your family became ill through covid19 to the point where you needed treatment. Who would you call for advice - NHS 111 or your nearest homeopathy retailer??

[Psamathe]

I think Homeopaths are really selfish.

The power to help they have but don't use. A few drops of their diluted water in e.g. upper Thames and they could cure millions within months. End of cancer. Anti-vaxers would become a thing of the past as the diseases they don't want to be protected from are eliminated. Think of the saving to the NHS.

And all for the cost of a few drops of diluted water.

Maybe start with their cure for stupidity?

Ian

[horizon]

I think Homeopaths are really selfish.

The power to help they have but don't use. A few drops of their diluted water in e.g. upper Thames and they could cure millions within months. End of cancer. Anti-vaxers would become a thing of the past as the diseases they don't want to be protected from are eliminated. Think of the saving to the NHS.

And all for the cost of a few drops of diluted water.

Maybe start with their cure for stupidity?

Ian

I'm not defending homeopathy, but at least they didn't suggest shutting down the whole world to prevent a disease. And, at the moment, no-one else has a cure for coronavirus either. Furthermore, the emergence of covid19 is AIUI broadly in line with their beliefs, even if they don't have a cure.

[thatsnotmyname]

I'm not defending homeopathy, but at least they didn't suggest shutting down the whole world to prevent a disease. And, at the moment, no-one else has a cure for coronavirus either. Furthermore, the emergence of covid19 is AIUI broadly in line with their beliefs, even if they don't have a cure.

Homeopathy's lack of a cure does not validate it though. In fact, I'm not aware of homeopathy's ability to cure any disease. Whereas medical science has come up with a fair few cures, antidotes and vaccines in it's time.

[Carlton green]

It is a bit like signalling when driving, hard to prove someone did *not* do something, hard to prove homeopathy does not work
Whatabout placebos?

I am interested but ignorant, do not know much, did a bit of biology at school, never been sick much

Hope this thread does not get locked, the b***t thread was locked, is still I hope (+1!), that is enough

The time for the thread to be locked is long overdue. I know it’s your thread but it has become nothing more than a medium to rubbish Homeopathy in any and every way possible. There is no conversation worth having and there is pretty much only antagonistic comments and goading, neither of those types of comments has any place on this forum or any other.

The Brexit thread went to same way and several others are similar. Unfortunately some folk can’t help themselves and feel entitled, compelled even, to force their views onto others and to make them see the (perceived) errors of their ways. It’s time to pull the plug on this thread, lock it and move on.

[Cugel]

It is a bit like signalling when driving, hard to prove someone did *not* do something, hard to prove homeopathy does not work
Whatabout placebos?

I am interested but ignorant, do not know much, did a bit of biology at school, never been sick much

Hope this thread does not get locked, the b***t thread was locked, is still I hope (+1!), that is enough

The time for the thread to be locked is long overdue. I know it’s your thread but it has become nothing more than a medium to rubbish Homeopathy in any and every way possible. There is no conversation worth having and there is pretty much only antagonistic comments and goading, neither of those types of comments has any place on this forum or any other.

The Brexit thread went to same way and several others are similar. Unfortunately some folk can’t help themselves and feel entitled, compelled even, to force their views onto others and to make them see the (perceived) errors of their ways. It’s time to pull the plug on this thread, lock it and move on.

Well, I votes for a thread combining the philosophy of homeononsense, flat Erf, Bollixit and astrology into one enlightening discussion. One post ought to be sufficient to cover the whole lot

Cugel

[Mike Sales]

The time for the thread to be locked is long overdue. I know it’s your thread but it has become nothing more than a medium to rubbish Homeopathy in any and every way possible. There is no conversation worth having and there is pretty much only antagonistic comments and goading, neither of those types of comments has any place on this forum or any other.

The Brexit thread went to same way and several others are similar. Unfortunately some folk can’t help themselves and feel entitled, compelled even, to force their views onto others and to make them see the (perceived) errors of their ways. It’s time to pull the plug on this thread, lock it and move on.

We could instead have a thread on whether a perpetual motion machine could ever work .
Though I expect some haters would feel the need to point out that the idea is nonsense, and goad believers with stuff about the laws of thermodynamics.

[thatsnotmyname]

The time for the thread to be locked is long overdue. I know it’s your thread but it has become nothing more than a medium to rubbish Homeopathy in any and every way possible. There is no conversation worth having and there is pretty much only antagonistic comments and goading, neither of those types of comments has any place on this forum or any other.

The Brexit thread went to same way and several others are similar. Unfortunately some folk can’t help themselves and feel entitled, compelled even, to force their views onto others and to make them see the (perceived) errors of their ways. It’s time to pull the plug on this thread, lock it and move on.

Presumably you'd want it re-opened again if any evidence ever came to light regarding homeopathy's efficacy in a clinical setting? I know I would...

[Psamathe]

I think a discussion about homeopathy is very relevant in our modern world (maybe no to cycling but to society). It was relativly recently that the NHS was providing homeopath based treatments (using limited NHS resources). As of early 2019 NHS was reportedly still spending £55000/ye on homeopathy treatments (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/05/nhs-still-spending-55000-year-homeopathy-despite-ban/).

NHS has to pay for legal experts to defend against court appeals about provision of homeopathy treatments e.g. 2018 court case by the British Homeopathic Association trying to overturn the ban (https://www.england.nhs.uk/2018/06/nhs-england-welcomes-homeopathy-court-ruling/).

There are many aspects beyond the "does it work?" aspects, in my opinion linking to public opinions about well established stuff (e.g. Climate Change, the anti-vaxers, etc.).

One interesting thing that creeps-up on this forum periodically is when somebody does not like ideas being expressed on a thread they start the "thread should be locked ..." cries.

Ian

[Tangled Metal]

What can you discuss about a subject like homeopathy? There's been no evidence it works. End of discussion. Seriously what else is needed to end this snake oil business? Why discuss it other than to try and help the misinformed learn the truth?

If this opinion is wrong then prove it with randomized, double blind studies showing homeopathy working. If not then stop complaining when people are expressing the current state of understanding on homeopathy, namely it's never been shown to work and non scientifically it's bunkum, snake oil and potentially dangerous if you ignore traditional medicine for that.

[Psamathe]

What can you discuss about a subject like homeopathy?.....

For me the relevant discussion is about its use rather than it working. Why did we accept members of our Royal Family lobbying for public funds to be spent on providing homeopathy treatments? How did somebody who made millions from a company promoting alternative medicine (incl. homeopathy) get appointed to be Health Secretary? (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunts-company-30-million-lists-homeopathy-courses-promoted-on-the-nhs-a7529671.html) - Hunt signed an "early day motion" supporting such treatments on the NHS (2007) and eventually the NHS told Hunt that they should not be publicly treated.

Not about whether they work or not (I suspect that those who believe in them are going to reject all evidence anyway) but how we allowed them to use taxpayers money through those (self) appointed to power.

Ian

[softlips]

It is a bit like signalling when driving, hard to prove someone did *not* do something, hard to prove homeopathy does not work
Whatabout placebos?

I am interested but ignorant, do not know much, did a bit of biology at school, never been sick much

Hope this thread does not get locked, the b***t thread was locked, is still I hope (+1!), that is enough

Very easy to prove homeopathy does not work.

Placebos (and now even sham procedures) are used in clinical trials and the effects of them is clearly documents and taken account of.

[reohn2]

There's one and only one way in which a medical procedure can be deemed successful and that is if it cures the sufferer of whatever ailment it claims to,or at very least gives relief from whatever ailment it claims to.
If it does neither of those things when claiming to do either of those things it's a con.

[Jdsk]

Betteridge's Law Of Headlines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines.

Jonathan