Is anyone moving?

[D363]

NHS doctors and nurses are paid much more than the average wage and therefore have no money problems - or shouldn't have.

As we are told they are special people with a vocation I'd find it difficult to believe any of them contemplate leaving the NHS for higher paid work elsewhere.

Selling your skills to the highest bidder is the kind of behaviour ordinary people indulge in.

That's a nice little explanation. Very clear and simple. Very simple.

I think there is some merit in looking at why people choose careers, in the caring and education sectors it can't always be about 'vocation'.

My sister and a sister-in law are teachers, on the whole l think they like it and are good at it, but both chose it because despite whatever extra hours they may do it fits in well with having children; my sister changed careers because of that. I also once met a teacher who was a keen cyclist, frankly he seemed bored with teaching, he did it for five weeks away cycling in Europe every summer. He actually told me that was the best thing about teaching.

There is indeed merit in it. Insinuations cloaked in weak syllogisms don't add anything to understanding such questions though.

[carpetcleaner]

I've often wondered why it is necessary to pay NHS doctors and GPs their generous wages.

If it is true they are driven by a vocation, as many of them claim to be, they'd work for us for the average wage.

Maybe it isn't true.

Or maybe they do have a vocation and are also driven by a desire to get as much money as they can for their skills.

I don't know, never having had a vocation and or an understanding of how vocations work in capitalist societies.

[al_yrpal]

As for moving, I did that last year and it has been very stressful and has all the characteristics of an unmitigated disaster even though on the face of it my surroundings are far more grand. It's generally accepted that it isn't a good idea to move at an advanced age, advice which I ignored. I won't be doing it again but if I can I intend to spend a few weeks or months in various places in the UK and Europe to soak up and enjoy the different atmospheres.

Al

It’s sad to read of your predicament Al but essential reading for anyone who does have the notion of moving in later life. I hope they take note of your words.
My area is one that attracts people to move to in retirement. I’ve lost count of the number of people I’ve met who’ve done it. Initially they beam with enthusiasm which can dwindle quickly. Very few have stuck it out especially on the loss of a partner.

Thanks, like the curates egg my experience has been good in parts. We moved here to recieve better care for my wife sharing a large house and lovely gardens with our daughter and her husband with his parents next door. That part has been great. The main disappointment was that instead of a few years looking after my wife and enjoying her company it was only 4 months instead of the expected 4 years. And now I cant see her at all because she is in a Care Home. Thus, the whole reason for the move has gone. The pluses, far better healthcare in Devon than in Oxfordshire, a family immediately around to enjoy support me and a different landscape countryside and coast to explore. From what I have seen most people seem to enjoy a move and relish the change so I wouldnt say dont do it. In my case because of my wifes dementia and broken back it was no longer possible to enjoy the lifestyle we once had back in Oxfordshire. A grand house with wonderful gardens sounded attractive and it is but without your lifelong companion who you cannot see and may never see again its not much fun.

Al

[Vitara]

Sorry late to the party. Having worked in the Private Health Care sector I've seen this judgmental and ill informed comment too many times:

Was it my comment you are calling ill informed? That's a very aggressive stance to jump in with. How do you know where or how I'm informed? You've worked in the Private Heath care sector so you're an expert on all of it? Maybe you should go better inform yourself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -nhs-staff

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32589521

Based on the sources you've quoted it would appear you're informed to by a newspaper and BBC article.

How am I informed? I completed my Registered Nurse Training, and additional post registration training outside & at no cost to the NHS. I have subsequently worked for the NHS for nearly 3 decades, providing them the benefit of my training and experience (FWIW I'll be abck on duty at 10pm this evening).

I have other colleagues who are the same, trained elsewhere but then worked for the NHS. The organisations &/or countries that provided our training don't begrudge people taking their skills to the NHS so I see no reason why it it shouldn't happen the other way. Amongst those NHS Trained Doctors & Nurses who do leave to work for Private organisations, the majority will have spent time working for the NHS post qualification, and in my experience many return to the NHS at a later date.

The NHS may lose some of the people it Trains to the Private sector, but they also have a large number of staff who have trained elsewhere.

If you found my response agressive (I don't think it was) that's because I find unreasonable that Nurses should be critised for choosing to work for a Private organisation, when it would be unlikely for the same judgement to be applied to people in other professions.

[PH]

If you found my response agressive (I don't think it was) that's because I find unreasonable that Nurses should be critised for choosing to work for a Private organisation...

Which isn't what I said

[Ben@Forest]

I think there is some merit in looking at why people choose careers, in the caring and education sectors it can't always be about 'vocation'.

My sister and a sister-in law are teachers, on the whole l think they like it and are good at it, but both chose it because despite whatever extra hours they may do it fits in well with having children; my sister changed careers because of that. I also once met a teacher who was a keen cyclist, frankly he seemed bored with teaching, he did it for five weeks away cycling in Europe every summer. He actually told me that was the best thing about teaching.

There is indeed merit in it. Insinuations cloaked in weak syllogisms don't add anything to understanding such questions though.

You are saying l am insinuating facts about my own family whom l know and you don't?

To paraphrase the late Brian Redhead we shall now have a one minute silence for you to apologise for daring to suggest you know anything about my family and secondly perhaps in memory of decency which you have discarded.

[llayercake]

I suggest you read up a bit on Italian politics, I have a feeling you might not like the way the things are run there....but it will be sunnier

We have an Italian working with us who moved to the UK to get away from all the corruption they apparently have there.

She came back because she couldn't stand the corruption and nepotism anymore - which included the school she taught at employing at least one teacher who was not remotely qualified for the role but was a family member of someone in charge.

I'm not saying this can't happen elsewhere......

Apparently, a Jared Kushner is leading the USA's response to the pandemic, I don't know his qualifications though.

[Oldjohnw]

We have an Italian working with us who moved to the UK to get away from all the corruption they apparently have there.

She came back because she couldn't stand the corruption and nepotism anymore - which included the school she taught at employing at least one teacher who was not remotely qualified for the role but was a family member of someone in charge.

I'm not saying this can't happen elsewhere......

Apparently, a Jared Kushner is leading the USA's response to the pandemic, I don't know his qualifications though.

He's highly qualified. He has a master's in Nepotism.

[merseymouth]

Hello all, As things stand a large number of our fellow citizens will be relocating to a much small plot? Either with a turf top, or single use heating MM

[Cyril Haearn]

Choose a career, or have it thrust upon one?
..
Cugel, you dinnae mention the free cod liver oil (+1) and semolina (-1)

I just moved 200 miles to retire, a positive decision that had been brewing up for 18 months, or in the background for nearly thirty years, I am alone, young and fit enough to start again
Went cycling to a beautiful park today, after lunch at home I fell asleep, although I do not believe in sleeping except at night
Smug meter is high for me too

[carpetcleaner]

If you found my response agressive (I don't think it was) that's because I find unreasonable that Nurses should be critised for choosing to work for a Private organisation, when it would be unlikely for the same judgement to be applied to people in other professions.

I agree. Plenty of people are trained at the public's expense and work in the private sector. Most people in fact. Me included. Why should nurses and doctors trained at the public's expense be limited in who they can sell their labour to or criticised if they don't sell it to the NHS?

[PH]

If you found my response agressive (I don't think it was) that's because I find unreasonable that Nurses should be critised for choosing to work for a Private organisation, when it would be unlikely for the same judgement to be applied to people in other professions.

I agree. Plenty of people are trained at the public's expense and work in the private sector. Most people in fact. Me included. Why should nurses and doctors trained at the public's expense be limited in who they can sell their labour to or criticised if they don't sell it to the NHS?

I don't think anyone has said that, I certainly haven't and it would be dishonest of anyone to suggest I have. Here is what I have said

Don't get me wrong, I have no dispute with any individual who finds their skills and talents are better rewarded by a private sector employer. I do have an issue with the private sector taking advantage of the training the NHS, the taxpayer, has forked out for - £70,000 to train a nurse from scratch, £479,000 for a general practitioner, and £725,000 to train a hospital consultant (2015 figures)

[Cugel]

Choose a career, or have it thrust upon one?
..
Cugel, you dinnae mention the free cod liver oil (+1) and semolina (-1)

I just moved 200 miles to retire, a positive decision that had been brewing up for 18 months, or in the background for nearly thirty years, I am alone, young and fit enough to start again
Went cycling to a beautiful park today, after lunch at home I fell asleep, although I do not believe in sleeping except at night
Smug meter is high for me too

It was halibut liver oil 'round wor way. It's taste is perhaps one of my earliest memories, aged 2. I don't remember anything else until events when I was about 23.

You mention the semolina but this was not doled out by the NHS to the new mammies and their bairns, no. This was supplied as school dinner pud after being treated by large wimmin in pinnies employing a process that turned the stuff from edible to words-can't-describe-it. But later on the grammar school had its own kitchens built, where they produced ambrosia and nectar for us small boys (and the larger ones). Or maybe we were always just bluddy hungry? I know I was. It was all that playing-out that modern children know little of.

Cugel, built of school dinners.

[D363]

I think there is some merit in looking at why people choose careers, in the caring and education sectors it can't always be about 'vocation'.

My sister and a sister-in law are teachers, on the whole l think they like it and are good at it, but both chose it because despite whatever extra hours they may do it fits in well with having children; my sister changed careers because of that. I also once met a teacher who was a keen cyclist, frankly he seemed bored with teaching, he did it for five weeks away cycling in Europe every summer. He actually told me that was the best thing about teaching.

There is indeed merit in it. Insinuations cloaked in weak syllogisms don't add anything to understanding such questions though.

You are saying l am insinuating facts about my own family whom l know and you don't?

To paraphrase the late Brian Redhead we shall now have a one minute silence for you to apologise for daring to suggest you know anything about my family and secondly perhaps in memory of decency which you have discarded.

Paraphrase whoever you want Ben, you're barking up the wrong tree. You quoted carpet cleaner's post (the insinuation cloaked in a weak syllogism) as if it shed light on anything other than his own personality, which it doesn't. I said nothing at all about you and your family. In the spirit of the times though, I'm happy to apologise if you feel you've been hard done by.

[Ben@Forest]

Paraphrase whoever you want Ben, you're barking up the wrong tree. You quoted carpet cleaner's post (the insinuation cloaked in a weak syllogism) as if it shed light on anything other than his own personality, which it doesn't. I said nothing at all about you and your family. In the spirit of the times though, I'm happy to apologise if you feel you've been hard done by.

Thank you. Whatever the intimations of other posters, and as said before my wife is a nurse, l simply feel the idea that all care is a vocation is easy thinking. Nurses have to do three years training, healthcare assistants (and there are more than 370,000 in the NHS) often have no set entry requirements.

My mother-in-law, now long retired, had four jobs in her working life, working on leather in a shoe factory, being a housekeeper in a large household, care assistant in a special needs school and care assistant in an elderly home. She is caring person but all of those jobs were selected and taken because of proximity to where she was living at the time and/or raising her own children. Working as a care assistant was not a vocation, it was convenient.