Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

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carpetcleaner
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Joined: 14 Nov 2019, 1:25pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby carpetcleaner » 27 Apr 2020, 5:28pm

Cunobelin wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
'Maybe you can, maybe you can't. I'm not a doctor.'


Transcript here.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 ... nfectant-/


So he was asking a sarcastic question to the press, yet at the same time addressing the scientific representatives with a serious question?

That is the outline of the defence that your article puts forth.

However what was asked is YOUR opinion, and YOUR interpretation. I can produce thousands of scientific advisors who are of the opinion that Trump's advice was dangerous and stupid



So you can't find anything in the transcript of the video which where the President says he thinks injecting disinfectant is a good idea or that UV light is either?

You provided us with the video. Now tell us where he says either of these things.

Please don't tell us what you or your thousands of scientific advisors think he said or meant.

Tell us what he said.

carpetcleaner
Posts: 920
Joined: 14 Nov 2019, 1:25pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby carpetcleaner » 27 Apr 2020, 5:44pm

Cunobelin wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:UK government related news update.

'The approval ratings of almost all world leaders have risen compared to before the pandemic. After a slight initial rise, however, Japan’s Abe and America’s Trump have seen their ratings fall back down again. Boris, on the other hand, has risen further than the others, from an already high base. Polls show if there were an election tomorrow more than one in two people would vote Tory, and Boris is trusted more than any other politician. Not that you’d get that impression from much of the media…'

https://order-order.com/2020/04/27/bori ... g7-leader/


Last time you tried this you failed and proved that Sunak was more popular and trusted than Johnson.

The "Rally round the Flag" effect has been explained to you on multiple occasions, yet you still seem unable to comprehend such a simple concept.

The fact that ALL the leaders are increasing would support this bias


No I didn't. I didn't enter into a debate about their relative popularity and trustworthiness. Both Conservative politicians are highly trusted and very popular and that pleases me.

The people of the UK are obviously very satisfied with Boris and his party.

What a good choice we made in December. The British people showed their wisdom in 2016 with their advice to the government over EU membership and choosing Boris shows that we are just as wise now.

What a great country we are. It's not surprising so many foreigners want to come here or to stay here, many of them preferring the UK to their EU homelands.

merseymouth
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Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby merseymouth » 27 Apr 2020, 5:44pm

Hi all, I think that Carpetflogger's reasoning is that as we haven't turned up a certificate that officially stipulates that Trump is a crazy as a loon, but in more medically correct terminology, then his word should be accepted as truth?
That would have then in adjacent padded cells at the funny farm! Trump is certainly beyond absolution, Nutty as a Fruit Cake :cry: MM

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Cunobelin
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Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby Cunobelin » 27 Apr 2020, 6:00pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
No I didn't. I didn't enter into a debate about their relative popularity and trustworthiness. Both Conservative politicians are highly trusted and very popular and that pleases me.


You produced data that you said proved Boris was popular and made that claim. Yet because you had not actually read or understood the link that uou gave, the data produced proved that Sunak was more popular, but as with most data denied its existence because it was inconvenient. You didn't enter into a debate because there was impossible without admitting your deeply flawed claims

The people of the UK are obviously very satisfied with Boris and his party.

What a good choice we made in December. The British people showed their wisdom in 2016 with their advice to the government over EU membership and choosing Boris shows that we are just as wise now.


What a choice less than 27% in the 2016 instance and less than 43% made in 2019, but then again you have always had a problem with maths and reality, this claim of yours has been disproven multiple times.

What a great country we are. It's not surprising so many foreigners want to come here or to stay here, many of them preferring the UK to their EU homelands.


Yet again you are ignoring the reality of the mass exodus because it is inconvenient. You are in denial of the hundreds of thousands who chose NOT to stay here, ALL of them preferring their EU homeland to the UK. It has also been proven previously that it is not a preference but necessity, however at least this is better than your previous ridiculous claim that it was because of "faith" in the UK
Last edited by Cunobelin on 27 Apr 2020, 6:10pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby Cunobelin » 27 Apr 2020, 6:07pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
Transcript here.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 ... nfectant-/


So he was asking a sarcastic question to the press, yet at the same time addressing the scientific representatives with a serious question?

That is the outline of the defence that your article puts forth.

However what was asked is YOUR opinion, and YOUR interpretation. I can produce thousands of scientific advisors who are of the opinion that Trump's advice was dangerous and stupid



So you can't find anything in the transcript of the video which where the President says he thinks injecting disinfectant is a good idea or that UV light is either?

You provided us with the video. Now tell us where he says either of these things.

Please don't tell us what you or your thousands of scientific advisors think he said or meant.

Tell us what he said.



You have kindly provided a transcript and an article. THe article states that he has made two claims and it is unequivocal that he is either:

1. Lying when he said it was a sarcastic remark to Journalists
0r...
2. Lying when he says it was questions addressed to the medical experts.



All that is needed is to decide which one is a lie... or explain how both are true

carpetcleaner
Posts: 920
Joined: 14 Nov 2019, 1:25pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby carpetcleaner » 27 Apr 2020, 10:56pm

Cunobelin wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
No I didn't. I didn't enter into a debate about their relative popularity and trustworthiness. Both Conservative politicians are highly trusted and very popular and that pleases me.


You produced data that you said proved Boris was popular and made that claim. Yet because you had not actually read or understood the link that uou gave, the data produced proved that Sunak was more popular, but as with most data denied its existence because it was inconvenient. You didn't enter into a debate because there was impossible without admitting your deeply flawed claims

The people of the UK are obviously very satisfied with Boris and his party.

What a good choice we made in December. The British people showed their wisdom in 2016 with their advice to the government over EU membership and choosing Boris shows that we are just as wise now.


What a choice less than 27% in the 2016 instance and less than 43% made in 2019, but then again you have always had a problem with maths and reality, this claim of yours has been disproven multiple times.

What a great country we are. It's not surprising so many foreigners want to come here or to stay here, many of them preferring the UK to their EU homelands.


Yet again you are ignoring the reality of the mass exodus because it is inconvenient. You are in denial of the hundreds of thousands who chose NOT to stay here, ALL of them preferring their EU homeland to the UK. It has also been proven previously that it is not a preference but necessity, however at least this is better than your previous ridiculous claim that it was because of "faith" in the UK


What mass exodus?

3.4 million EU people want to stay here.

That's a massive vote of confidence in post-Brexit UK.

I think Boris can take a lot of credit for it.

carpetcleaner
Posts: 920
Joined: 14 Nov 2019, 1:25pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby carpetcleaner » 27 Apr 2020, 11:01pm

Cunobelin wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
So he was asking a sarcastic question to the press, yet at the same time addressing the scientific representatives with a serious question?

That is the outline of the defence that your article puts forth.

However what was asked is YOUR opinion, and YOUR interpretation. I can produce thousands of scientific advisors who are of the opinion that Trump's advice was dangerous and stupid



So you can't find anything in the transcript of the video which where the President says he thinks injecting disinfectant is a good idea or that UV light is either?

You provided us with the video. Now tell us where he says either of these things.

Please don't tell us what you or your thousands of scientific advisors think he said or meant.

Tell us what he said.



You have kindly provided a transcript and an article. THe article states that he has made two claims and it is unequivocal that he is either:

1. Lying when he said it was a sarcastic remark to Journalists
0r...
2. Lying when he says it was questions addressed to the medical experts.



All that is needed is to decide which one is a lie... or explain how both are true


I'm waiting for the quote where President Trump advocates bleach as a cure for the corona virus.

Just tell me the time in the video where he says it.

Vitara
Posts: 230
Joined: 12 Feb 2014, 11:18pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby Vitara » 27 Apr 2020, 11:49pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:

So you can't find anything in the transcript of the video which where the President says he thinks injecting disinfectant is a good idea or that UV light is either?

You provided us with the video. Now tell us where he says either of these things.

Please don't tell us what you or your thousands of scientific advisors think he said or meant.

Tell us what he said.



You have kindly provided a transcript and an article. THe article states that he has made two claims and it is unequivocal that he is either:

1. Lying when he said it was a sarcastic remark to Journalists
0r...
2. Lying when he says it was questions addressed to the medical experts.



All that is needed is to decide which one is a lie... or explain how both are true


I'm waiting for the quote where President Trump advocates bleach as a cure for the corona virus.

Just tell me the time in the video where he says it.


Perhaps the part where he says:

"Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me."

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Cunobelin
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Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby Cunobelin » 28 Apr 2020, 6:59am

carpetcleaner wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
No I didn't. I didn't enter into a debate about their relative popularity and trustworthiness. Both Conservative politicians are highly trusted and very popular and that pleases me.


You produced data that you said proved Boris was popular and made that claim. Yet because you had not actually read or understood the link that uou gave, the data produced proved that Sunak was more popular, but as with most data denied its existence because it was inconvenient. You didn't enter into a debate because there was impossible without admitting your deeply flawed claims

The people of the UK are obviously very satisfied with Boris and his party.

What a good choice we made in December. The British people showed their wisdom in 2016 with their advice to the government over EU membership and choosing Boris shows that we are just as wise now.


What a choice less than 27% in the 2016 instance and less than 43% made in 2019, but then again you have always had a problem with maths and reality, this claim of yours has been disproven multiple times.

What a great country we are. It's not surprising so many foreigners want to come here or to stay here, many of them preferring the UK to their EU homelands.


Yet again you are ignoring the reality of the mass exodus because it is inconvenient. You are in denial of the hundreds of thousands who chose NOT to stay here, ALL of them preferring their EU homeland to the UK. It has also been proven previously that it is not a preference but necessity, however at least this is better than your previous ridiculous claim that it was because of "faith" in the UK


What mass exodus?

3.4 million EU people want to stay here.

That's a massive vote of confidence in post-Brexit UK.

I think Boris can take a lot of credit for it.


As before you seem to live in a bubble of your own fantasies... The world recognises that Brexit is not settled, (apart from yourself)
No-one is unaware that until the negotiations are complete, Post Brexit Britain is an unknown....please reassure me that you are aware that we are still negotiating?


As for the exodus has been explained fully, you simply deny it and come out with the same incorrect and flawed rubbish.

In brief the number is an irrelevance - remember the Ferrets?

If the trend shows an exodus then your claims like many of your other claims ) are untrue.

Close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears, sing LALALALALALA all you like, but it will not alter the reality that the trend of applications has DECREASED, the number leaving the UK for the EU has INCREASED, and the number of UK citizens leaving of the EU has INCREASED

However, you are right in that your Messiah can take credit for the exodus, more people leaving the UK for the EU tan at any time in the last ten years is his responsibility

However, you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make them think, or in this case, you can educate someone, but if they are a zealous acolyte that does not wish to see beyond their closed fantasy, the chances of them learning is minimal

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby pwa » 28 Apr 2020, 10:18am

Cunobelin wrote:Close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears, sing LALALALALALA all you like, but it will not alter the reality that the trend of applications has DECREASED, the number leaving the UK for the EU has INCREASED, and the number of UK citizens leaving of the EU has INCREASED

The GROWTH in the number of EU nationals living in the UK has slowed significantly. That is not the same as saying the number of EU nationals living in the UK has gone down significantly, and you would need the latter to justify the word "exodus". (And for the record, I would not welcome or seek an exodus. There were still ,before lockdown, more EU nationals coming into the UK than leaving. That is simply not an exodus. I just prefer facts to hype.)

PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 28 Apr 2020, 11:05am

pwa wrote: I just prefer facts to hype.)

Hmm.
Sorry but as a supporter of Leave you did vote for a considerable quantity of hype at the the time of the referendum.
Simplistic and deceitful slogans on buses. Easy negociations (they'll be falling over themselves for a deal) etc.

And no negatives.
That was clearly hype.

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby pwa » 28 Apr 2020, 11:13am

PDQ Mobile wrote:
pwa wrote: I just prefer facts to hype.)

Hmm.
Sorry but as a supporter of Leave you did vote for a considerable quantity of hype at the the time of the referendum.
Simplistic and deceitful slogans on buses. Easy negociations (they'll be falling over themselves for a deal) etc.

And no negatives.
That was clearly hype.

Can we stay with the use of the word "exodus" rather than replaying all the Brexit stuff? You can have a variety of valid opinions on most topics, but it is not valid to pretend more EU nationals are leaving the UK than are entering. That is still not the case. Use of the word "exodus" is plain wrong. Daft, even. By all means have views on things, but come on, you need a lot more EU nationals leaving than entering before you can call it an "exodus". Don't you?

llayercake
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Joined: 18 Jan 2011, 8:52pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby llayercake » 28 Apr 2020, 12:18pm

However, you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make them think, or in this case, you can educate someone, but if they are a zealous acolyte that does not wish to see beyond their closed fantasy, the chances of them learning is minimal[/quote]

I don't disagree at all, but your statement kind of begs the question "So, in that case, why keep trying?"

I won't quote Orwell again for fear of getting deleted but there is no conviction stronger than that which is enabled by a closed mind.
I recall a phrase that I read in an American motorcycle magazine in the 80s, "Reasonable people achieve nothing." That is a cleaned up version but conveys the sentiment of the original. If you can leave reason out of the equation the sky is the limit.

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4089
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 28 Apr 2020, 12:50pm

pwa wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
pwa wrote: I just prefer facts to hype.)

Hmm.
Sorry but as a supporter of Leave you did vote for a considerable quantity of hype at the the time of the referendum.
Simplistic and deceitful slogans on buses. Easy negociations (they'll be falling over themselves for a deal) etc.

And no negatives.
That was clearly hype.

Can we stay with the use of the word "exodus" rather than replaying all the Brexit stuff? You can have a variety of valid opinions on most topics, but it is not valid to pretend more EU nationals are leaving the UK than are entering. That is still not the case. Use of the word "exodus" is plain wrong. Daft, even. By all means have views on things, but come on, you need a lot more EU nationals leaving than entering before you can call it an "exodus". Don't you?

A quick Internet Search produced this below.

One could reasonably describe 140,000 plus an Exodus, I guess?
.....
"EU vs rest of the world

The number of EU nationals leaving the UK has jumped sharply since the EU referendum, standing at an estimated 145,000 in the latest period.

Meanwhile, there has been a gradual increase in immigration of non-EU citizens over the past five years for both work and study."

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/uk-migratio ... ears-94901

pwa
Posts: 13900
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Is the UK government an incompentent bunch of liars?

Postby pwa » 28 Apr 2020, 1:04pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
pwa wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:Hmm.
Sorry but as a supporter of Leave you did vote for a considerable quantity of hype at the the time of the referendum.
Simplistic and deceitful slogans on buses. Easy negociations (they'll be falling over themselves for a deal) etc.

And no negatives.
That was clearly hype.

Can we stay with the use of the word "exodus" rather than replaying all the Brexit stuff? You can have a variety of valid opinions on most topics, but it is not valid to pretend more EU nationals are leaving the UK than are entering. That is still not the case. Use of the word "exodus" is plain wrong. Daft, even. By all means have views on things, but come on, you need a lot more EU nationals leaving than entering before you can call it an "exodus". Don't you?

A quick Internet Search produced this below.

One could reasonably describe 140,000 plus an Exodus, I guess?
.....
"EU vs rest of the world

The number of EU nationals leaving the UK has jumped sharply since the EU referendum, standing at an estimated 145,000 in the latest period.

Meanwhile, there has been a gradual increase in immigration of non-EU citizens over the past five years for both work and study."

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/uk-migratio ... ears-94901


A few lines from the top it says EU migration added 57,000 to the UK population in the year. Not subtracted, but added. Lots left but even more came in. Using the word "exodus" is misleading. It creates a picture of more people leaving than coming in. But even until the start of the lockdown that was just not the case. If we are feeling so free and easy with the use of the English language, what would be the equally colourful phrase for the even larger number of EU nationals that came in? People have their views on Brexit, but why resort to daft and distorting language? We can express our views without doing that. Leave that sort of thing to Trump.