Helmets save lives, end of, get over it
Read the "Discussion" section (link) for this Spanish study (after the "Abstract" section)
Regards
tim-b
Helmets save lives, end of, get over it
Marcus Aurelius wrote:......... Helmets save lives, end of, get over it.
reohn2 wrote:Marcus Aurelius wrote:......... Helmets save lives, end of, get over it.
I think you bought the blurb and are convinced that you'll die if you don't wear a helmet,when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.
Marcus Aurelius wrote:As per usual, nothing is made of consequential escalation. For example, a helmet less rider, is hit in the head, by an object, whilst riding. Loses control, due to being stunned, goes under a truck, the death is attributed to multiple injuries, no one looks at what started the chain of events, because of the ending. Same happens if a helmet less rider falls off, and their head hits the deck, they spin much further into the road, than they would have done, if they’d remained relatively responsive, wearing a lid, they get hit by a vehicle, that wouldn’t have hit them if they’d not gone so far into the road, again the death is put down to multiple injuries, which a helmet wouldn’t have helped with, without looking at the start of the event chain. Helmets save lives, end of, get over it.
pjclinch wrote:If helmets saved lived at the population level, and remember the whole population's anecdotes put together are everything that happens, then we would see lower serious injury and death rates with increased helmet use. We don't...
pjclinch wrote:Marcus Aurelius wrote:As per usual, nothing is made of consequential escalation. For example, a helmet less rider, is hit in the head, by an object, whilst riding. Loses control, due to being stunned, goes under a truck, the death is attributed to multiple injuries, no one looks at what started the chain of events, because of the ending. Same happens if a helmet less rider falls off, and their head hits the deck, they spin much further into the road, than they would have done, if they’d remained relatively responsive, wearing a lid, they get hit by a vehicle, that wouldn’t have hit them if they’d not gone so far into the road, again the death is put down to multiple injuries, which a helmet wouldn’t have helped with, without looking at the start of the event chain. Helmets save lives, end of, get over it.
Deary me. Or, if we decide to have the opposite result when predetermining our conclusion we'll come up with a different notional accident with a helmeted rider with a consequently bigger head is caught by something that would otherwise have missed them, loses control as a result, goes under a truck etc.
If you really think you have a point (and speaking as someone who examines masters research work as part of my job, I don't think you do) then put it in a paper and send it to the BMJ and they'll have a peer-review (that's peers in the sense of know the subject and about study designs and the nature of different cohorts etc.) and let you know what they think. Anyone can do this, if it's robust there's no reason it wouldn't be published, so why don't you?
If helmets saved lived at the population level, and remember the whole population's anecdotes put together are everything that happens, then we would see lower serious injury and death rates with increased helmet use. We don't, so while the odd life may have been saved somewhere the odd life may have been lost somewhere too. At a public policy (i.e., giving advice to others) they have no track record of improving injury rates, end of, get over it.
Pete.
tim-b wrote:"Results Non-use of a helmet was directly associated with death..." Read the "Discussion" section (link) for this Spanish study (after the "Abstract" section)
pjclinch wrote:Or you could read the Goldacre/Spiegelhalter editorial which points out some of the confounding problems in doing the research, and why the research is such a mess that it doesn't really contribute much. I can cherry pick my way through the pile and "prove" all sorts of things, but if you look at the pile as a whole it tells you that there's a lot of noise and it obscures any signal. Taking a single study and saying "but this one says!" isn't really helpful.
Jdsk wrote:pjclinch wrote:If helmets saved lived at the population level, and remember the whole population's anecdotes put together are everything that happens, then we would see lower serious injury and death rates with increased helmet use. We don't...
Could you provide a summary of the evidence supporting that assertion, please?
pjclinch wrote:The conclusions are that at policy level the case for recommending or requiring helmets has not been properly made, but the author pointed out in a postscript he wore one and required his daughter to wear one for reasons he admitted didn't really cut it for a consultancy report.
pjclinch wrote:Jdsk wrote:pjclinch wrote:If helmets saved lived at the population level, and remember the whole population's anecdotes put together are everything that happens, then we would see lower serious injury and death rates with increased helmet use. We don't...
Could you provide a summary of the evidence supporting that assertion, please?
Oh good grief, no I'm not going to do that because it's necessary to DIY if you want to avoid bias.
Jdsk wrote:pjclinch wrote:Or you could read the Goldacre/Spiegelhalter editorial which points out some of the confounding problems in doing the research, and why the research is such a mess that it doesn't really contribute much. I can cherry pick my way through the pile and "prove" all sorts of things, but if you look at the pile as a whole it tells you that there's a lot of noise and it obscures any signal. Taking a single study and saying "but this one says!" isn't really helpful.
Yes. Any sensible discussion from here on should be based on systematic review methods, not cherrypicked single studies.
Jdsk wrote:pjclinch wrote:Jdsk wrote:Could you provide a summary of the evidence supporting that assertion, please?
Oh good grief, no I'm not going to do that because it's necessary to DIY if you want to avoid bias.
I totally disagree. It's the methods that remove bias not the authorship.
Marcus Aurelius wrote:I’ll stick to the only evidence I’ll ever need. Having had two very similar incidents, in two very similar sets of circumstances, the outcome of the one whilst wearing a lid was far more satisfactory, than the one that happened whilst not wearing a lid.