CUK Price change.

Summer 2020 - Cycle Magazine announcement about membership changes
AndyK
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby AndyK » 10 Aug 2020, 5:40pm

gxaustin wrote:
I am going to play devil’s advocate and ask why you feel members should be discounted just viscountess(typo but I think I get your drift) on age principal. Discount is still available to those solely dependent upon state pension, those with a supplementary income.?


I don't know anyone who lives solely on a state pension (other than myself during this lockdown), most get some form of additional help with housing allowance etc. Therefore hardly any seniors will get the discounted rate and it's Cha Ching for CUK.
.

Housing benefit is a means-tested benefit, so in your example they would still qualify for the concessionary membership rate.

Alfadeke21
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby Alfadeke21 » 11 Aug 2020, 6:54am

In the interests of complete fairness should all concessionary bus/travel passes be withdrawn and seniors be required to pay full fares like everyone else?
Who amongst the senior members in CUK doesn’t take advantage of this discounted rate, I wonder.

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mjr
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby mjr » 11 Aug 2020, 9:40am

Alfadeke21 wrote:In the interests of complete fairness should all concessionary bus/travel passes be withdrawn and seniors be required to pay full fares like everyone else?

Yes, and replaced with means-based concessions, unless someone can explain how it's not ageist.
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PH
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby PH » 11 Aug 2020, 10:07am

Alfadeke21 wrote:In the interests of complete fairness should all concessionary bus/travel passes be withdrawn and seniors be required to pay full fares like everyone else?
Who amongst the senior members in CUK doesn’t take advantage of this discounted rate, I wonder.

To follow that comparison through - How would that increase bus use?

Cyril Haearn
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 11 Aug 2020, 10:10am

PH wrote:
Alfadeke21 wrote:In the interests of complete fairness should all concessionary bus/travel passes be withdrawn and seniors be required to pay full fares like everyone else?
Who amongst the senior members in CUK doesn’t take advantage of this discounted rate, I wonder.

To follow that comparison through - How would that increase bus use?

Increasing bus use is not desirable
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Jdsk
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby Jdsk » 11 Aug 2020, 11:17am

Alfadeke21 wrote:In the interests of complete fairness should all concessionary bus/travel passes be withdrawn and seniors be required to pay full fares like everyone else?

Some of the issues:
http://www.if.org.uk/2014/03/13/should-all-pensioners-be-given-free-bus-travel/

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gaz
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby gaz » 11 Aug 2020, 12:28pm

mjr wrote:So it's back up to 2007 levels, then? viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8924&hilit=70000

Good spot. The wayback machine supports that figure as far back as Sept 2004: https://web.archive.org/web/20040912090 ... org.uk:80/
70000.png
Fact check.
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thirdcrank
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Aug 2020, 12:52pm

AndyK wrote: ... Housing benefit is a means-tested benefit, so in your example they would still qualify for the concessionary membership rate.


In your earlier comments on this thread or one of the others, you gave me a very clear impression that your interpretation of the new rate affecting what I think of as OAPs would be that it would be for those only receiving the state retirement pension, although nobody would bother about an extra fiver or words to that effect.

If you are now saying that recipients of any income related (AKA means-tested) benefit will qualify for the "concessions" rate, then that needs to be stated explicitly.

Also on this thread or another, I mentioned that the BBC had picked receipt of Pension Credit as the qualification for free TV licences for over 75s.

Entitlement to state benefits is a vast and complicated subject, as I only discovered when I did a spell as a volunteer at Batley CAB.

If I can shamelessly plug another charity, the Child Poverty Action Group publishes annually a handbook which is the advisers' bible: the current edition runs to 1800pp (ie one thousand, eight hundred pages) and it's all tightly packed print. A snip at £65.00 with a discount for members.

https://cpag.org.uk/shop/cpag-titles/we ... ook-202021

AndyK
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby AndyK » 11 Aug 2020, 4:44pm

thirdcrank wrote:
AndyK wrote: ... Housing benefit is a means-tested benefit, so in your example they would still qualify for the concessionary membership rate.


In your earlier comments on this thread or one of the others, you gave me a very clear impression that your interpretation of the new rate affecting what I think of as OAPs would be that it would be for those only receiving the state retirement pension, although nobody would bother about an extra fiver or words to that effect.


I did say that, but being dependent on the state pension is one way of qualifying. Being eligible for a means-tested benefit is another. As I've said, you only have to qualify for concessionary rate in one of the ways quoted, not all of them. As I also said at some point (I lose track now) I don't know whether it's possible to be reliant on the state pension and not eligible for further benefits, but I am not an expert. As you point out, benefits are complicated.

thirdcrank
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Aug 2020, 5:16pm

One way to look at it is that the government assesses the equivalent of a living wage for pensioners. You get a National Insurance contribution-based pension at (the ever-rising) pension age. There's then the income-related / means-tested element originally called the Minimum Income Guarantee which is now Pension Credit. To mitigate the poverty trap, there's Savings Credit which rewards modest savings and additional income.

Then Pension Credit gives automatic entitlement - "passports" - to other, otherwise means-tested benefits, the most significant being Housing Benefit (payment of rent) and Council Tax Benefit.

My point is that once you are going down this route - in this case introducing income related/ means tested membership rates, then you really do need simplicity and clarity. The CPAG book I referred to is published because officials get it wrong. It's unrealistic to expect people dealing with applications for charity membership to have any sort of benefits expertise. Similarly, it shouldn't be necessary for would-be members to get an appointment with the CAB.

I'm pretty sure that this is why the BBC plumped for Pension Credit. Once the decision was taken to have an income related / means tested licence concession for the over 70s, it's the only way to do it. At "point of sale" it's YES/NO, without ifs or buts.

Tim Holman
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby Tim Holman » 11 Aug 2020, 8:02pm

Hello, all. The main thing is to vote! I did so yesterday, keep the Senior Membership.

gxaustin
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby gxaustin » 12 Aug 2020, 12:09pm

Increasing bus use is not desirable


Let them drive cars then?

Cyril Haearn
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 12 Aug 2020, 12:50pm

gxaustin wrote:
Increasing bus use is not desirable


Let them drive cars then?

Of course not, they should travel less

I do not want more cycling either, NIMBY at least

I just moved home, got a voucher for a monthly bus season. Shall not be using it, no need, the town is quite small, one can cycle or walk everywhere
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nicola.marshall
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby nicola.marshall » 12 Aug 2020, 3:38pm

Just to clarify - the new concessionary rate would be available to those who receive pension credit as this is a means-tested benefit.

I agree it's a complicated area, so we will always use the Turn2Us list of means-tested benefits. They are a well recognised charity working to support people on low incomes. We've linked to their definition in the FAQs but here it is again: https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Jargon-buste ... d-benefits.

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NUKe
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Re: CUK Price change.

Postby NUKe » 12 Aug 2020, 3:50pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
PH wrote:
Alfadeke21 wrote:In the interests of complete fairness should all concessionary bus/travel passes be withdrawn and seniors be required to pay full fares like everyone else?
Who amongst the senior members in CUK doesn’t take advantage of this discounted rate, I wonder.

To follow that comparison through - How would that increase bus use?

Increasing bus use is not desirable

Why is increased bus not desirable ?Covid aside
NUKe
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