Electric power points for e-vehicles

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
mercalia
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Electric power points for e-vehicles

Postby mercalia » 15 Aug 2020, 10:59am

I was suprised on one of the side roads off Streatham High st there is a power charging point for presumably just cars. SO this is the future? will we get the same for ebikes? It seems there are 3 different varieties - hi and low octane electricity :lol:

WP_20200813_15_02_40_Pro.jpg

Jdsk
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby Jdsk » 15 Aug 2020, 11:07am

The variety of options both in the electrical charging and the physical connectors is a problem, and it isn't clear how it will play out in practice. Some EV owners carry several cables and some subscribe to more than one supplier.

But does anyone charge eBikes (as opposed to electric motorbikes) from anything other than a domestic 13A socket?

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 15 Aug 2020, 11:40am, edited 1 time in total.

thirdcrank
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Aug 2020, 11:12am

It looks to be at the stage where different standards are still competing. Perhaps the will come a point where one dominates and the others will be memories.

Oldjohnw
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Aug 2020, 11:26am

As yet, ebikes can't do rapid charges AFAIK. 20 minutes will not get you 80% charge or whatever it is.
John

kwackers
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby kwackers » 15 Aug 2020, 12:16pm

thirdcrank wrote:It looks to be at the stage where different standards are still competing. Perhaps the will come a point where one dominates and the others will be memories.


Jdsk wrote:The variety of options both in the electrical charging and the physical connectors is a problem, and it isn't clear how it will play out in practice. Some EV owners carry several cables and some subscribe to more than one supplier.

But does anyone charge eBikes (as opposed to electric motorbikes) from anything other than a domestic 13A socket?

Jonathan

I think it's all over now - apart from 'internationally'.
In Europe pretty much every car (apart from Nissan) is a type 2 charger, also type 2 chargers are mandated at charging points now.
I think Nissan still use CHAdeMO but tbh I can't imagine that lasting much longer since it's not a mandated standard and they're on their tod (easy to get a CHAdeMO to type 2 converter though).

In Japan I think everything is CHAdeMO and I'm not sure what other countries use but given the size of Europe and the mandated standard then from our POV there are no conflicting standards.

thirdcrank
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Aug 2020, 12:30pm

The picture in the OP has three different "nozzles."

kwackers
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby kwackers » 15 Aug 2020, 12:44pm

thirdcrank wrote:The picture in the OP has three different "nozzles."

Believe it or not the right two are both type 2 (the one on the left is CHAdeMO).

So type 2 comes in two flavours. AC and DC rapid charge.
The socket on the car has 2 extra pins under the main socket which is what you're seeing on the middle socket. That cable is *always* provided by the charger and is a bit bulkier.

The one one the far right doesn't have the extra 2 pins but it'll still plug into your socket, the only downside is for most people they'll only get 7KW from it (whereas you can get upwards of 100KW from the bigger 'DC' socket).

So basically for slow chargers, the one you have at home or what you commonly see stuck to lamposts or supermarkets these are the round type 2 socket and you usually need your own cable which is probably in the boot.
For the DC fast chargers the basic cable is the same but there are an extra 2 nice fat pins which provide the silly amount of power to charge the car quickly. This cable is always provided by the charger so you don't need one.

thirdcrank
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Aug 2020, 12:59pm

Unless I've missed something, it's only a matter of time before that rapid charge becomes the norm. ie it's the only one which seems to be anything like the familiar fuel pump.

Jdsk
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby Jdsk » 15 Aug 2020, 1:04pm

Standardisation of the connector and of the charging protocol need to be considered separately, although of course only some combinations are possible.

Jonathan

kwackers
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby kwackers » 15 Aug 2020, 1:10pm

thirdcrank wrote:Unless I've missed something, it's only a matter of time before that rapid charge becomes the norm. ie it's the only one which seems to be anything like the familiar fuel pump.

That's because you've still got your 'internal combustion' hat on.

For months I only used a 3 pin plug to charge mine.
In simple terms for the sorts of mileage I did each day I'd just plug it in overnight every few days and 'fill' it up.
Roughly speaking 10 hours on a 3 pin plug adds 80 miles - so for 95% of people typical car use a 3 pin plug would actually work well.

One plus here is that when you get in your car it has a "full tank"! My missus had a penchant for running my petrol car to the point where it only just had enough petrol to get you to the petrol station the next day - usually in the opposite direction I wanted to go.


Now the 'proper' socket is fitted to the house I can add roughly 30 miles for every hour of charge and tbh the only advantage for me is I can now better choose when to use electricity since my 'lecky provider has half hour tariffs - my charger selects the cheapest half hour slots and uses those.

If I went to work in it (I don't) then I could plug it into one of the lampposts and again get 30 miles/hour - which would mean it'd be charged fully again in an hour.
At a supermarket, restaurant etc something similar would happen.

What seems to be universally true is the only time you need rapid chargers is when you're travelling any distance. Drive a couple of hours and have a break whilst the car charges up on the rapid charger.

And as ranges continue to increase the likelihood of even that reduces. There's a fair number of EV's now with 200+ miles of realistic range and a few hitting 300.
I can't remember the last time I drove over 300 miles in one go - so for me charging at home and then at my destination on a normal charger would easily be enough and I suspect that's true for a lot of other folk too.

kwackers
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby kwackers » 15 Aug 2020, 1:12pm

Jdsk wrote:Standardisation of the connector and of the charging protocol need to be considered separately, although of course only some combinations are possible.

Jonathan

Only if you've got your techy hat on.

As a user all you're concerned about is whether you can plug your car in.
You don't need to have an EV for long before you realise there are only two plugs, fast and slow and both will fit your car.

(Unless you drive a Leaf)

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Mick F
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby Mick F » 15 Aug 2020, 1:26pm

Do you have to pay for these street charges?
The photo at the OP doesn't show a slot for your quids.
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Aug 2020, 1:29pm

I'm not sure this is a lack of vision on my part. Something that will be adequate for most of the people most of the time is the chain with the weak link. It's always been the case that most people would be ok with a small car most of the time, only hiring a larger one when needed. It's only a hunch but I suspect a lot of people go for a bigger car than they need, simply to cater for the odd occasion when they need more room.

I've a drive and solar panels and I rarely drive far these days, an occasional 100 mile round trip being my usual max so I'd be an ideal candidate for some sort of electric car on your description. It's a bit like cars without spare wheels. I'm a take-a-raincoat-in-case-it-rains sort of a chap.

Perhaps a time will come - perhaps it has already(?) - where some breakdown organisation will turn out to electric vehicles with a flat battery and give them a boost.

kwackers
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby kwackers » 15 Aug 2020, 1:34pm

Mick F wrote:Do you have to pay for these street charges?
The photo at the OP doesn't show a slot for your quids.

Usually - but not always.

Rapid chargers usually charge mainly because they're the last resort of those in a rush. But some don't (probably won't surprise you to know there are online resources to help you find 'free vend' chargers).

Fast chargers (7kw) are often free, mainly because you can only get a few pence worth of 'lecky our of them in a reasonable time plus a lot are part of an establishment like a supermarket etc so it's an incentive to come shop there.
The new station near me has 8(?) chargers, I think they're a flat fee of £1.20 regardless of how much 'lecky you use. The new multi storey apparently has 50 chargers all with the same deal (they're all run by the council).

Then there are apps that let you share your "plug" so folk can come and use it if they're desperate.

When they charge you they do so either through contactless payments (I think new fast chargers are mandated to have this) or you can sign up on a providers website and then enable the charger via an app.

thirdcrank
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Re: electrtric power points for e-vehicles

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Aug 2020, 1:44pm

In the interests of broadening my education, I've just had a skeg at the EDF www. I hope people accept I don't believe much these days in adverts, especially from those with a vested interest.

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/charging-points

Some interesting ... er ... points about electric charging systems

CHAdeMO

Is the older type of charging cable connector for rapid charging
Is compatible with Japanese vehicle manufacturers
Is the most common rapid connector type due to the popularity of the Nissan Leaf

Combined Charging System (CCS)

Is the most versatile rapid charging connector
Likely to become the most popular DC connector standardisation
Enables a higher power rating to support larger ultra rapids chargers

(My emphases)