Right to roam Scotland?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
toontra
Posts: 1190
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Right to roam Scotland?

Post by toontra »

I was doing a favourite off-road ride in Angus today. I got to a short stretch of tarmac that connects 2 farm tracks that skirts around several cottages. Never had any issues before. There are no gates or signs.
But today 2 ferocious alsations bounded right up to me, snarling and barking, followed by the owner. He said it was his garden and I couldn't continue. I said I'd used this road for 30 years, which he said was impossible. I offered to show him the GPS tracks of those rides (which I could have done) but just kept telling me to back up.
The presence of the dogs made any further discussion impossible so I turned around and had to make a lengthy detour.
Anyone any knowledge of how the right to roam legislation works in these situations?

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by Jdsk »

greyingbeard
Posts: 851
Joined: 24 Mar 2015, 10:41pm

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by greyingbeard »

IF someone is threatening to set the dogs on you, call plod. Do let us know how you get on
User avatar
geomannie
Posts: 1093
Joined: 13 May 2009, 6:07pm

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by geomannie »

toontra wrote:I was doing a favourite off-road ride in Angus today. I got to a short stretch of tarmac that connects 2 farm tracks that skirts around several cottages. Never had any issues before. There are no gates or signs.
But today 2 ferocious alsations bounded right up to me, snarling and barking, followed by the owner. He said it was his garden and I couldn't continue. I said I'd used this road for 30 years, which he said was impossible. I offered to show him the GPS tracks of those rides (which I could have done) but just kept telling me to back up.
The presence of the dogs made any further discussion impossible so I turned around and had to make a lengthy detour.
Anyone any knowledge of how the right to roam legislation works in these situations?

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.


Gardens are excluded from right to roam. I am sure that having ridden the road for 30 years you have a very clear idea if that is correct. If it's not a garden, you pretty much have a right to use it. Your local council access officer should be able to advise if problems remain.

I have noticed that private signs are springing up on farm roads & drives in recent years. They have no legal force by and large

Can you post a image or location of the section of road in question?
geomannie
toontra
Posts: 1190
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by toontra »

Thanks all. Very useful. I'm on holiday so don't have access to a computer for posting images.

The hamlet is called Renmure, just north of Inverkeilor, and my route was northbound from North Mains farm towards Pamphry. The tracks are clearly shown on OS maps.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.
User avatar
Paulatic
Posts: 7804
Joined: 2 Feb 2014, 1:03pm
Location: 24 Hours from Lands End

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by Paulatic »

Use a path or track, if there is one, when you are close to a house and keep a sensible distance away if there is no path or track.


He hadn’t a leg to stand on. If it had been me I’d of offered my name and address, told him to study the Access Code and write to me if he felt I was going against it.

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/
E2E info
toontra
Posts: 1190
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by toontra »

Paulatic wrote:
Use a path or track, if there is one, when you are close to a house and keep a sensible distance away if there is no path or track.


He hadn’t a leg to stand on. If it had been me I’d of offered my name and address, told him to study the Access Code and write to me if he felt I was going against it.

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/
Yes - but the dogs! They were salivating on my legs the whole time.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.
toontra
Posts: 1190
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by toontra »

I tried Angus council but they aren't taking any phone calls at the moment (unless you want to pay for something!).

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.
Will
Posts: 484
Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 6:39pm

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by Will »

You can contact Angus Council and report it:

https://www.angus.gov.uk/leisure_sport_ ... ess_rights

"If you think access rights have been obstructed, you can contact us via ACCESSLine on 03452 777 778. We will look into the issue, and if appropriate we will seek to have the obstruction removed.

In some cases we may also consider whether a public right of way exists. Public rights of way can exist over land where access rights do not apply."

Will
toontra
Posts: 1190
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by toontra »

Thanks Will. That's the number I tried. Just get a message saying most services aren't available at the moment. Worth remembering for when/if normality returns.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.
User avatar
Paulatic
Posts: 7804
Joined: 2 Feb 2014, 1:03pm
Location: 24 Hours from Lands End

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by Paulatic »

toontra wrote:I tried Angus council but they aren't taking any phone calls at the moment (unless you want to pay for something!).

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.

This is your man to contact
ECF07B1C-FC66-452D-9A36-94C4356B5FBB.jpeg
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/
E2E info
User avatar
geomannie
Posts: 1093
Joined: 13 May 2009, 6:07pm

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by geomannie »

I also think the fact that you have been using the route unhindered for 30 years further establishes this as a right of way. Any proof such as track logs very useful.

You could could also perhaps discover if the property was recently sold by searching https://scotlis.ros.gov.uk/ . Maybe a new dog in a manger.

Cheers
geomannie
Will
Posts: 484
Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 6:39pm

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by Will »

The track doesn't appear on the core paths for that area:

https://www.angus.gov.uk/sites/angus-cm ... ap11_4.pdf

Will
toontra
Posts: 1190
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by toontra »

Well done Will. That shows the location clearly. If you zoom in to Renmure, the dotted curved track is the current tarmac road, bypassing the house and garden. At no point on the road do you come within 20 yards of any residential properties.

As you say, not on the map as a designated cycle track, but neither are 95%of the other tracks used freely by cyclists/walkers.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G973F using hovercraft full of eels.
Will
Posts: 484
Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 6:39pm

Re: Right to roam Scotland?

Post by Will »

You could also try looking to see if there are any planning applications been applied for there in the last few years. There may be plans which show the boundaries of any land that is designated as within the curtilage of the house (i.e. garden). Either he (or a previous owner) may have changed the use of some land that was designated as agricultural (such as paddock) to garden - You're not allowed to do that without planning permission. If he is using land as garden without permission then he hasn't got a leg to stand on (it ain't a garden).

Will
Post Reply