Frame damaged on first ride

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
JohnW
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby JohnW » 7 Sep 2020, 3:55pm

I submit that this can be typical of buying a ready built (or thrown together) bike on-line.
How many people have posted on this forum with similar problems? i.e bikes sold in a defective condition - not fit for purpose - not safe?
I ride our local greenway very frequently, and often meet people, new to cycling, (not people I've known previously) riding a new bike, and wondering if something is wrong.

Some examples :
......Front forks fitted wrong way round.
......Headsets so tight that the bars are very difficult to turn.
......Bike quite clearly fitted with incorrect front changer.
......Delivered with tyres not-inflated, but with inner-tube valves that didn't work.
......Just as the OP on this thread - chain link-pins not properly located.
......STI brake levers not properly adjusted, so that the gears "don't work" (and truly, effectively, they didn't work).
......No seat-pin binder bolt fitted.
......Clearly the wrong brakeset fitted so that the brake-blocks couldn't reach the rim, but applied themselves to the tyre sidewall.

There are well established, experienced local bike shops who no longer sell bikes - they repair, service and set up bikes - they'll properly set-up bikes bought on-line, adjust them and are indemnified for the work they do. They do charge for their service though, and at least one of them is honest enough to say that they make as much money out of doing that than they'd make profit on selling a new bike.

From the OP's account and the photograph it looks to me that the chain wasn't assembled correctly, and was a problem (or a disaster) waiting to happen. Most of us who are experienced cyclists and who repair and maintain our own bikes would have noticed that, but how on earth can a novice be expected to see that and identify the problem? I submit that the OP couldn't be.

Whatever the ethical, moral and legal situation I don't believe that the OP will now get satisfaction from referring back to an on-line seller. I could be wrong, and he may be lucky, but don't bank on it. I would anticipate that the on-line seller's initial response would possibly be that "it's the rider's responsibility" to check the bike.

How many times has the advice on these threads to buy from a reputable LBS?
I really feel sorry for Jd843 - the price of the bike on-line would probably have been significantly lower than an LBS, for the same thing.............there's more to these things than the price tag.

JohnW
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby JohnW » 7 Sep 2020, 3:57pm

Navara wrote:That there be your problem!

That should not have been missed by QC after building but might have looked absolutely fine before it left the retailer.Luckily you haven't suffered a more serious issue :x

Quite - a very good point - imagine climbing a steep hill in heavy traffic.........and the chain splits!

Jd843
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Joined: 20 Feb 2020, 7:48am

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby Jd843 » 7 Sep 2020, 4:07pm

JohnW wrote:How many times has the advice on these threads to buy from a reputable LBS?.

I would have bought from an LBS if they had any bikes in stock at all. It would have been the same price.

I’m hoping they’ll take responsibility since they claim their bikes are ready to ride out of the box, fully checked by their mechanics etc. I didn’t think I needed to check such a basic thing as the chain being fitted properly.

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531colin
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby 531colin » 7 Sep 2020, 4:30pm

simonhill wrote:......I would just send it back and say "it doesn't work". No argument, no reasoning, it doesn't work full stop.


I'm fascinated by this approach. Anybody tried it?
I once had an appalling delivery from a roofing company. I sent them E mails and pictures of the broken plastic roofing sheets; no response at all until I started proceedings with the credit card company, when there came a barrage of lies and denials of ever getting my E mails. The credit card people seem to work on the basis of whoever keeps going the longest wins the case, and that was me. I ended up paying them nothing, despite that from the outset I said I was prepared to pay for the bits which actually turned up un-damaged, and which I used. Having tried to get all the money for damaged/missing goods, they didn't seem to want payment for the stuff they actually delivered. I wonder if they claimed against the carriers.

PaulS
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Joined: 26 Jan 2012, 6:45am
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby PaulS » 7 Sep 2020, 5:36pm

Buying on-line gives you a lot of protection. You have a right to change your mind and send it back up to 14 days after you receive it. See here :

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... egulations

and 30 days for faulty goods.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... rights-act

If you bought it with your credit card you have protection there too. Even a debit card gives you protection, but that is more of a voluntary code.
Last edited by PaulS on 7 Sep 2020, 5:45pm, edited 1 time in total.

fastpedaller
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby fastpedaller » 7 Sep 2020, 5:44pm

The issues with buying a bike online are probably only obvious to those of us that are familiar with the workings of a bike. This makes it very difficult for the average buyer who (understandably) believes the bike is 'complete and ready' if this is stated by the vendor. It's similar to buying a washing machine online and it then arrives and requires transit bolts removing, plumbing-in and of course the old washing machine needs to be disposed of. A similar item from a local vendor will just need filling with washing and turning on after the 'fitting guys' have gone, taking the old machine with them.

thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby thirdcrank » 7 Sep 2020, 7:24pm

Although this relates to a bike, a cycling forum may not be the best place to get advice over what is essentially a consumer protection problem when a purchase has been made. The fact that most experienced cyclists know what can go wrong, what to look out for and how to fix it shouldn't affect the requirement that something bought new should be right. In this case, the product has not only failed but its doing so has caused damage.

Getting redress for faulty goods can be complicated and that's not been helped since the Coalition cut back on local consumer protection departments but if you have a local Citizens Advice, they may be able to help if you don't get satisfaction. Above all, don't delay and don't play about with it.

JohnW
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby JohnW » 7 Sep 2020, 8:13pm

PaulS wrote:Buying on-line gives you a lot of protection. You have a right to change your mind and send it back up to 14 days after you receive it. See here :

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... egulations

and 30 days for faulty goods.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... rights-act

If you bought it with your credit card you have protection there too. Even a debit card gives you protection, but that is more of a voluntary code.


But what if he'd been climbing a steep hill, putting a lot of effort into the pedals, on a busy road? A split chain could have deposited him in the road, and a passing motorist, too close to take avoiding action, run over him and killed him? Consumer rights and 30-day refund would be no use to him then.

JohnW
Posts: 6434
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby JohnW » 7 Sep 2020, 8:16pm

thirdcrank wrote:Although this relates to a bike, a cycling forum may not be the best place to get advice over what is essentially a consumer protection problem when a purchase has been made. The fact that most experienced cyclists know what can go wrong, what to look out for and how to fix it shouldn't affect the requirement that something bought new should be right. In this case, the product has not only failed but its doing so has caused damage.

Getting redress for faulty goods can be complicated and that's not been helped since the Coalition cut back on local consumer protection departments but if you have a local Citizens Advice, they may be able to help if you don't get satisfaction. Above all, don't delay and don't play about with it.

Absolutely tc - but a concensus that the bike was initially faulty/dodgy at least gives the OP something to start with.

brumster
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Joined: 8 Sep 2009, 7:50pm

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby brumster » 7 Sep 2020, 8:31pm

Jd843 wrote:Update: was just looking at the chain and it looks like the connecting pin has been put in badly - it isn’t flush with the side of the link, in other words it hasn’t been pushed all the way through. I’ve included a couple of pictures of the inside/back of the chain link. The link feels loose and looks wonky. I can push the plates together with my fingers. Could this cause the chain to drop?


Could this damage to the chain link have occurred whilst trying to remove the jammed chain from behind the chainring?

mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby mattsccm » 7 Sep 2020, 8:47pm

If you are going back to the supplier do it sharpish. Any legal time limits aside the less scope for you to gave ridden it the better. Sadly no one will believe "on the first ride"sort of thing after a month or more. Why not present the suppluer with the facts and see what happens? If they don't cooperate mention thd crefit card company. If that fails go to the card company.

Jd843
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Joined: 20 Feb 2020, 7:48am

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby Jd843 » 7 Sep 2020, 9:42pm

brumster wrote:
Jd843 wrote:Update: was just looking at the chain and it looks like the connecting pin has been put in badly - it isn’t flush with the side of the link, in other words it hasn’t been pushed all the way through. I’ve included a couple of pictures of the inside/back of the chain link. The link feels loose and looks wonky. I can push the plates together with my fingers. Could this cause the chain to drop?


Could this damage to the chain link have occurred whilst trying to remove the jammed chain from behind the chainring?


I doubt it - how could that move the connecting pin anywhere?

JohnW
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby JohnW » 7 Sep 2020, 11:18pm

Jd843 wrote:
brumster wrote:
Jd843 wrote:Update: was just looking at the chain and it looks like the connecting pin has been put in badly - it isn’t flush with the side of the link, in other words it hasn’t been pushed all the way through. I’ve included a couple of pictures of the inside/back of the chain link. The link feels loose and looks wonky. I can push the plates together with my fingers. Could this cause the chain to drop?


Could this damage to the chain link have occurred whilst trying to remove the jammed chain from behind the chainring?


I doubt it - how could that move the connecting pin anywhere?


Yes I'd agree with that. Before the 'Magic Links' became the norm, I must have fitted dozens of chains, using the "Rivoli" or similar chain tool, and in my own opinion I don't believe that would happen in that situation.

The pin is either too short - or not located correctly (pity we don't see a photograph from the other side of the chain).
Any incident like that would have distorted and marked at least one outer plate.

Jd843
Posts: 27
Joined: 20 Feb 2020, 7:48am

Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby Jd843 » 8 Sep 2020, 7:10am

JohnW wrote:
Jd843 wrote:
brumster wrote:
Could this damage to the chain link have occurred whilst trying to remove the jammed chain from behind the chainring?


I doubt it - how could that move the connecting pin anywhere?


Yes I'd agree with that. Before the 'Magic Links' became the norm, I must have fitted dozens of chains, using the "Rivoli" or similar chain tool, and in my own opinion I don't believe that would happen in that situation.

The pin is either too short - or not located correctly (pity we don't see a photograph from the other side of the chain).
Any incident like that would have distorted and marked at least one outer plate.


Here’s how it looks from the outside of the link:
Image Attachments
C30D2A5D-349D-4F3A-B4BA-573F9C767CE5.jpeg

De Sisti
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Re: Frame damaged on first ride

Postby De Sisti » 8 Sep 2020, 7:15am

Have a quit ride and see if it's ok.