DaveP wrote:The prospect of waking up in the morning to find that the porridge hasn't cooked
I recall as a student cooking porridge overnight, based on a misunderstanding of my mother's culinary technique.
It wasn't a great success.
DaveP wrote:The prospect of waking up in the morning to find that the porridge hasn't cooked
DaveReading wrote:DaveP wrote:The prospect of waking up in the morning to find that the porridge hasn't cooked
I recall as a student cooking porridge overnight, based on a misunderstanding of my mother's culinary technique.
It wasn't a great success.
DaveP wrote:According to a couple of articles that I have read in the last month or so, Smart meters (possibly the next generation) are being touted as a way for electricity providers to manage the situation that will result when we have all been weaned off gas / solid fuel heating options and fossil fuel powered transport. Apparently the published timetables for these changes are so tight that it will not be possible to increase generating capacity fast enough to keep pace with the new demands. Power suppliers will be able to turn off high consumption equipment and impose a form of rationing.
Personally, I think that if we have to endure interrupted supplies to make ends meet thats one thing - but I would like to be given a rota, The prospect of waking up in the morning to find that the porridge hasn't cooked, the storage heaters aren't warm and the car isn't going anywhere today because some algorithm has randomly picked my postcode for special attention is a bit scary.
Littgull wrote:sjs wrote:pwa wrote:
We need them to be fully qualified and competent after their training, not before.
My meters were installed by a pair of trainees under the supervision of a much younger but evidently qualified person. When the power was switched on he found that the live and neutral had been connected the wrong way round.
This is termed a 'cross polarity' and as such is classed as a 'dangerous occurrence' under the R.I.D.D.O.R (Reporting of Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations) 2013. Such incidents are legally required to be reported to the Health and Safety Executive (H.S.E) by the metering installer company/ electricity supplier. This enables the H.S.E to investigate the incident and if lack of competency is found then H.S.E will take enforcement action.
pwa wrote:GranvilleThomas wrote:The most worrying thing about all this smart meter 'campaign' for me is that the people installing the meters do not necessarily have any kind of electrical qualifications.
I am a radio ham and an electronics/computer enthusiast but I have no electrical qualifications and I certainly would not want to go around installing a device like a smart meter, that if installed incorrectly, has the potential to burn someone’s house down.
I assumed that the installers would be electricians at the very least. However I could not find any of the smart meter recruitment companies asking for much at all. The main requirement seemed to be having a driving license.
The following is taken from the logic4training website one of the main recruiters on behalf of the energy providers:
Smart Meter installer training
You don't need any specific qualifications to start training as a Smart Meter installer though some employers may prefer you to have a minimum of four GCSEs or equivalent. Qualifications in maths, English, science, design and technology or electronics would all be useful.
http://www.logic4training.co.uk
Smart gas meter installers have to be by law (because they will have to break into a gas way, to complete installation) Gas Safe Registered, which is fair enough, but no formal qualifications for the installation of electric meters, 'just' a certificate of competence from whichever energy company you will be working for.
The installer courses seem to vary in length as well, with EDF for example stating a course duration of 9 weeks and some other courses, like the one from 'South Lanarkshire College' lasting 20 weeks.
Maybe working for the HSE for ten years has made me a bit paranoid
We need them to be fully qualified and competent after their training, not before.
GranvilleThomas wrote:I know what you mean but ideally I would like to see both. In other words, train already qualified competent electricians to be able to install smart meters competently.
Maybe that was the original idea but no electricians were interested because the pay was too low?
pwa wrote:GranvilleThomas wrote:I know what you mean but ideally I would like to see both. In other words, train already qualified competent electricians to be able to install smart meters competently.
Maybe that was the original idea but no electricians were interested because the pay was too low?
If our electricians were recruited for this, there might then be a shortage for everything else we need electricians for. And surely we want employers to take untrained people and give them new skills. That is how it should be. Identify someone who can be trained, then invest time and money in making them competent in a new skill area.
GranvilleThomas wrote: Maybe things have changed and I am just getting old, but I worry when people complete a short course with no previous electrical experience and are them deemed to be safe and competent to install potentially dangerous equipment, like a smart smart meter in a house where people have to sleep at night.
I suppose when someone rich and famous dies they will change the requirements.
kwackers wrote:Depends where you read those articles.
I remember similar articles going back several years that cited 2020 as the year when we'd start seeing blackouts due to shortages. Not only did it not happen but we even closed older generators and didn't replace them.
Energy use has been declining for years in this country rather than going up.
The grid says they can cope and I've no reason not to believe them.
There is the proviso (I suspect) that for high use equipment (cars and heating) that smart devices along with smart meters are the way forward. (It's why you can't get a grant for a car charger unless it's smart - not that I think anyone still manufactures dumb chargers).
I doubt that the use of smart meters adds anything to the power control scenario.
If things ever became that desperate they'd just have rolling blackouts like the olden days. Turning off entire areas doesn't require smart meters.
Long before we got there though, you'd expect Agile tariffs to be a thing and pricing to be used to control use.
Storage solutions and more renewables have so far easily filled the holes left by missing generation. Electricity is also one of the easiest things to move around the globe, far easier than moving gas and oil and yet we do those two with no problems.
PDQ Mobile wrote:But you make it sound as if electric vehicles are carbon neutral.
PDQ Mobile wrote:And solar is great, in summer mostly, and when the sun shines.
If you can run your vehicle on them, on a small scale basis great but I doubt the capacity of a stand alone installation for most peoples 6-10k miles per annum.
PDQ Mobile wrote:I cannot see the motorways of Britain filled with leccy vehicles just yet. There is simply not the generating capacity on top of winter demand IMV.
kwackers wrote:GranvilleThomas wrote: Maybe things have changed and I am just getting old, but I worry when people complete a short course with no previous electrical experience and are them deemed to be safe and competent to install potentially dangerous equipment, like a smart smart meter in a house where people have to sleep at night.
I suppose when someone rich and famous dies they will change the requirements.
TBH I think swapping a meter is money for old rope.
4 years of training for an electrical qualification is all about all those edge cases, rules and other associated stuff.
Swapping a meter is none of those. The meter is already there, the cables are either moved over or swapped for different lengths of the same stuff.
You could show someone how to do it in a day.
If there's anything that concerns me its more the physical side of fixing the new meter - I've little confidence in most tradespersons ability to fix something in place so it doesn't subsequently fall off...
GranvilleThomas wrote:I am certainly willing to bow to your superior knowledge, all my electrical/electronic knowledge is from the hobby side of it and all low voltage, low current
kwackers wrote:GranvilleThomas wrote:I am certainly willing to bow to your superior knowledge, all my electrical/electronic knowledge is from the hobby side of it and all low voltage, low current
As is mine (although I do have a degree in Electronic Engineering).
We both know though that simply moving four wires - albeit "thick" wires across from one place to another is more about mechanics than electrical engineering. You don't even need to work out the correct wire since you've only got one roll of the right type.
As I said, I'd be more concerned the unit didn't fall off the wall afterwards.
GranvilleThomas wrote:Well there is a 100 amp fuse (cut-out) leading up to my meter, that's a lot of current to play with if you are mainly concerned with mechanics - you might end up with a hair style like a 70's afro.
kwackers wrote:GranvilleThomas wrote:Well there is a 100 amp fuse (cut-out) leading up to my meter, that's a lot of current to play with if you are mainly concerned with mechanics - you might end up with a hair style like a 70's afro.
Nah, my welder puts out well over double that...
The current is irrelevant as long as the terminal screws are tight enough - which takes us to mechanics again.