Bob Jackson's shutting up

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Boring_Username
Posts: 77
Joined: 2 Mar 2017, 2:38pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby Boring_Username » 16 Oct 2020, 9:06pm

Back in the days when all bikes had horizontal top tubes and quill stems, I imagine quite a bit of custom framebuilders' business came from keen cyclists who couldn't get off the peg bikes to fit them properly. Now with compact frames, seatposts and stems of every type, it's relatively easy to achieve whatever fit you want at a fraction of the price. That can't have helped demand for framebuilders' services.

User avatar
speedsixdave
Posts: 799
Joined: 19 Apr 2007, 1:48pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby speedsixdave » 17 Oct 2020, 9:46am

Quite sad about this. I had them build a frame for my wife for her 40th birthday, and they were really helpful throughout the whole process with useful advice about what tubing upgrades were worthwhile etc.

The wife 'had her colours done' a few years ago, which means a person peers at you and considers what colours suit you best, and then issues you a little wallet with colour samples in so you can take this to the shops with you. I pinched this wallet from her drawer and posted it to Bob Jackson with an explanation, they very helpfully had a look and told me which of their colours most closely resembled the wifely-approved colour swatches, and then posted back the wallet the next day so it was back in her drawer before she had noticed it missing and the birthday surprise was complete. She now has a very nice 631 open frame tourer in Verde Lago Metallic (a sort of teal I guess) which she likes very much.
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!

Brucey
Posts: 41366
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby Brucey » 17 Oct 2020, 10:29am

speedsixdave wrote:Quite sad about this. I had them build a frame for my wife for her 40th birthday, and they were really helpful throughout the whole process with useful advice about what tubing upgrades were worthwhile etc.

The wife 'had her colours done' a few years ago...... She now has a very nice 631 open frame tourer in Verde Lago Metallic (a sort of teal I guess) which she likes very much.


very cunning! Just imagine if she didn't like it though.... :shock: :shock:

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
speedsixdave
Posts: 799
Joined: 19 Apr 2007, 1:48pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby speedsixdave » 17 Oct 2020, 10:38am

Brucey wrote:
speedsixdave wrote:Quite sad about this. I had them build a frame for my wife for her 40th birthday, and they were really helpful throughout the whole process with useful advice about what tubing upgrades were worthwhile etc.

The wife 'had her colours done' a few years ago...... She now has a very nice 631 open frame tourer in Verde Lago Metallic (a sort of teal I guess) which she likes very much.


very cunning! Just imagine if she didn't like it though.... :shock: :shock:

cheers


She has been diplomatic enough not to show it if that is the case!
Big wheels good, small wheels better.

Two saddles best!

pete75
Posts: 13411
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby pete75 » 17 Oct 2020, 2:06pm

Mike Sales wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
8.5m. catamaran.
Woods Gypsy.
Rather more structural stresses than a monohull.

Did you keep it at Surfleet Seas End. There was a cat there for a while.


Perhaps you mean Fosdyke Bridge, to which the answer is would be yes. An angular, red beast.
It takes long enough to get to the sea from there, Surfleet Reservoir would be too tedious. I used to keep a boat in the Menai Straits so I am rather spoilt.


And I suppose once they built a fixed bridge it was a bit of a palaver for anything with a mast to get out. The new marina at Fosdyke seems a bit expensive given the distance to Tabs Head. quite a bit more expensive than Wells which is a somewhat more pleasant place.
I kept a boat at Boston for some years - about 4 miles to Tabs Head but at least moorings are free on the salt side. Some interesting smells in that 4 miles - landfill rubbish tip and the town's sewage works alongside the river.

pete75
Posts: 13411
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby pete75 » 17 Oct 2020, 2:12pm

alexnharvey wrote:
pete75 wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:
Again you just ignore the bits that don't suit you, I already addressed the importance of creating a joint that lasts above.



Words are arbitrarily applicable relations, not formal properties.


The point with welding is that welds which merely stick the weld together won't stay stuck for very long. Doesn't matter how much skill and care you put into the sticking it ain't going to last. Properly done welding causes the items to fuse together not merely stick to each other.


"Stuck together" can range from 'post-it' note on paper to the various bits of mike's boat, just as it could refer to anything from a tack weld to a fully fused joint. "Stuck" is not sufficient in itself to define a joint, we might say "that's well stuck together" or " that's barely stuck together". The beauty of language is in its flexibility and that stems from its use in context. I don't care very much for you deciding that a word I have used must mean what you would like it to in this instance so you can make some barely related point for reasons that bewilder me. Now you've decided to focus on welded joints so you can differentiate between 'stuck' and 'fused' whereas you couldn't do that with brazing and soldering. I understand what you're saying quite easily, why you're at pains to misunderstand me each time is your difficulty.

I thought it would've been very clear that I was differentiating between those who are joining tubes together in some way (a small number of people) and those who are thinking about joining them together (a much larger number) and that the choice of the word stuck is just a shorthand for the various ways of joining one tube to another. Sadly it was not sufficient, for you at least.

It seems that any attempt to clarify is again taken out of context or ignored.


I understand what you're saying. The point is you're clearly wrong. Maybe you heard someone talking about stick welding and drew wrong conclusions from it. A common rookie error.

Mike Sales
Posts: 5269
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby Mike Sales » 17 Oct 2020, 2:54pm

pete75 wrote:And I suppose once they built a fixed bridge it was a bit of a palaver for anything with a mast to get out. The new marina at Fosdyke seems a bit expensive given the distance to Tabs Head. quite a bit more expensive than Wells which is a somewhat more pleasant place.
I kept a boat at Boston for some years - about 4 miles to Tabs Head but at least moorings are free on the salt side. Some interesting smells in that 4 miles - landfill rubbish tip and the town's sewage works alongside the river.


Yes, the bridge is a problem.
I have no car, so choice is very limited. I have moored in Boston. I did not feel very secure. Even with my gammy hip I could clamber easily over the ladder blanking planks.
The Wash does not compare very well with the Ynys Mon and Gwyedd coasts, I'm afraid. I had a mooring by Bangor Pier, and could walk the half mile to my beached tender. Many good memories.

JakobW
Posts: 415
Joined: 9 Jun 2014, 1:26pm
Location: The glorious West Midlands

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby JakobW » 17 Oct 2020, 3:17pm

In discussion elsewhere I've seen it mentioned that apparently BJ had sold their building, and so were going to be faced with rental costs if they continued into the new year; this seems to have been a factor. Though they no longer did customs in recent years, their frames were still heavily underpriced compared to other UK builders - I guess they felt there wasn't the market for more expensive OTP frames?

mikeymo
Posts: 1667
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby mikeymo » 17 Oct 2020, 3:36pm

This is a minor disappointment to me, because:

1. BJ seemed quite a bit cheaper than other frame-makers.
2. They're nearby.

But as Mercian are at least oop north and also do made to measure, at least when I've settled on what I want, I can get the frame of my dreams made.

pete75
Posts: 13411
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby pete75 » 18 Oct 2020, 1:59pm

Mike Sales wrote:
pete75 wrote:And I suppose once they built a fixed bridge it was a bit of a palaver for anything with a mast to get out. The new marina at Fosdyke seems a bit expensive given the distance to Tabs Head. quite a bit more expensive than Wells which is a somewhat more pleasant place.
I kept a boat at Boston for some years - about 4 miles to Tabs Head but at least moorings are free on the salt side. Some interesting smells in that 4 miles - landfill rubbish tip and the town's sewage works alongside the river.


Yes, the bridge is a problem.
I have no car, so choice is very limited. I have moored in Boston. I did not feel very secure. Even with my gammy hip I could clamber easily over the ladder blanking planks.
The Wash does not compare very well with the Ynys Mon and Gwyedd coasts, I'm afraid. I had a mooring by Bangor Pier, and could walk the half mile to my beached tender. Many good memories.


Yes I had my boat broken into in Boston.They took liferaft, waterproofs, VHF and a current at the time Macmillan nautical almanac. The theft of the latter made me think it was a boater who broke in. What use would a random thief have for a book with damn all second hand value?

pete75
Posts: 13411
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby pete75 » 18 Oct 2020, 2:05pm

mikeymo wrote:This is a minor disappointment to me, because:

1. BJ seemed quite a bit cheaper than other frame-makers.
2. They're nearby.

But as Mercian are at least oop north and also do made to measure, at least when I've settled on what I want, I can get the frame of my dreams made.


Has Mercian also got an ageing work force? Ellis Briggs and Woodrup are still building frames in/near Leeds. Feather Cycles in York build custom frames and I was quite impressed by the quality when they exhibited some bikes at the York Rally a couple of years ago.

PH
Posts: 9605
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby PH » 18 Oct 2020, 3:39pm

pete75 wrote:Has Mercian also got an ageing work force?

There's a mix of ages in the building shed. Mercian's previous owners retired a few years ago, they'd been working towards the business continuing for some time. Though the shop has now closed, the frame building is busy, 10 months wait for a new frame.
That this is given as the reason for BJ ceasing to build frames, indicates to me that maybe it isn't a viable business to continue. That isn't a criticism of anyone, it's no ones business but their own. But they didn't suddenly become an aging workforce and if it had been viable, they'd have been planning for it's continuation if they'd chosen too.

pete75
Posts: 13411
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby pete75 » 18 Oct 2020, 4:08pm

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:Has Mercian also got an ageing work force?

There's a mix of ages in the building shed. Mercian's previous owners retired a few years ago, they'd been working towards the business continuing for some time. Though the shop has now closed, the frame building is busy, 10 months wait for a new frame.
That this is given as the reason for BJ ceasing to build frames, indicates to me that maybe it isn't a viable business to continue. That isn't a criticism of anyone, it's no ones business but their own. But they didn't suddenly become an aging workforce and if it had been viable, they'd have been planning for it's continuation if they'd chosen too.


Some people just come to an age where they and every body else in a perfectly viable business are ready for retirement so just shut up shop without going through all the hassle of finding someone to hand it on to.

alexnharvey
Posts: 1349
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby alexnharvey » 18 Oct 2020, 4:29pm

pete75 wrote:
alexnharvey wrote:
pete75 wrote:
The point with welding is that welds which merely stick the weld together won't stay stuck for very long. Doesn't matter how much skill and care you put into the sticking it ain't going to last. Properly done welding causes the items to fuse together not merely stick to each other.


"Stuck together" can range from 'post-it' note on paper to the various bits of mike's boat, just as it could refer to anything from a tack weld to a fully fused joint. "Stuck" is not sufficient in itself to define a joint, we might say "that's well stuck together" or " that's barely stuck together". The beauty of language is in its flexibility and that stems from its use in context. I don't care very much for you deciding that a word I have used must mean what you would like it to in this instance so you can make some barely related point for reasons that bewilder me. Now you've decided to focus on welded joints so you can differentiate between 'stuck' and 'fused' whereas you couldn't do that with brazing and soldering. I understand what you're saying quite easily, why you're at pains to misunderstand me each time is your difficulty.

I thought it would've been very clear that I was differentiating between those who are joining tubes together in some way (a small number of people) and those who are thinking about joining them together (a much larger number) and that the choice of the word stuck is just a shorthand for the various ways of joining one tube to another. Sadly it was not sufficient, for you at least.

It seems that any attempt to clarify is again taken out of context or ignored.


I understand what you're saying. The point is you're clearly wrong. Maybe you heard someone talking about stick welding and drew wrong conclusions from it. A common rookie error.


No, I thought it would be very clear that I was distinguishing between those who are doing it and those who are talking about doing it, nothing more.

Mike Sales
Posts: 5269
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Bob Jackson's shutting up

Postby Mike Sales » 18 Oct 2020, 4:33pm

pete75 wrote: The new marina at Fosdyke seems a bit expensive

Yes I had my boat broken into in Boston.They took liferaft, waterproofs, VHF and a current at the time Macmillan nautical almanac. The theft of the latter made me think it was a boater who broke in. What use would a random thief have for a book with damn all second hand value?


Makes Boston a bit expensive then?