Shimano STI Shifters

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nick1854
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Shimano STI Shifters

Postby nick1854 » 17 Oct 2020, 9:37am

I have a Genesis bike fitted with Tiagra gearing. I have started to have shifting problems with the left hand shifter (2 speed). What is the lifespan of these? I understand from other posts that they are not repairable. Flushing it with GT85 has helped but I am still getting changes when the ratchet mechanism doesn't click and hold the tension on the cable. I just read the long thread on the Dawes Galaxy and now find myself wanting friction shifters again! Thanks for your help.

StuR
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Location: Worcestershire

Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby StuR » 17 Oct 2020, 9:58am

How old is the cable. Can you see if the cable has started to fray in the shifter?

nick1854
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Joined: 6 Nov 2016, 8:39am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby nick1854 » 17 Oct 2020, 10:02am

Cable is new, everything moving freely.

Brucey
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Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby Brucey » 17 Oct 2020, 10:18am

running whilst badly lubricated and persistently missing shifts can wear the pawls inside the shifter. However one of the other faults of this type which can occur is if the shifter has been run maladjusted, such that the cable is set too tight, so the mech is well into the H limit screw before the shifter has a chance to latch. This results in the shifter trying to latch under excessive tension. In addition when downshifts are attempted the shifter is again overstrained during release and furthermore it will slam into the next detent too, all at pressures far higher than the mech spring alone would normally generate. Not all models are equally reliable (and there are several different Tiagra models BTW) but this sort of thing can provoke premature wear or breakage even in normally reliable STI variants.

Provided they are kept well lubricated and adjusted, most STI units last reasonably well, and if they do, they are reasonable VFM I suppose. However I am not 100% sold on them for all kinds of reasons; running a friction shifter with the FD is no real bother and allows you to mix and match other shifting/braking components to a greater extent than you might be able to otherwise.

Depending on how you ride/shift you can have shifters on the down tube, on the bar end, on the stem, under the tops, over the tops, or mounted alongside the brake lever hoods; your choice.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

thelawnet
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Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby thelawnet » 17 Oct 2020, 10:24am

it would be more informative if you gave the age and model number, as there are several Tiagra versions.

there is a video here of a 5600 (105 but probably similar) dissasembly



that Youtube channel is generally more useful than the entire output of the 'official' cycling media combined.

Another video here of a Sora



And another here of an Ultegra st-6700, complete with ball bearings (I believe that they removed these from the subsequent versions), then almost identical to the da 7900



If the cycling media did its job then it would take these things apart and look at the relative build quality of different models, and how much Shimano cheaped out on the internals between different levels and versions, but it doesn't, so you'll have to look at people's diassemblies on Youtube instead.

nick1854
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Joined: 6 Nov 2016, 8:39am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby nick1854 » 17 Oct 2020, 10:41am

Thanks Brucey that is really helpful, I think the cable tension is quite high, I'll investigate. The bike is 2015 I think, Tiagra 4600 or 4650. Thanks for the links thelawnet.

mercalia
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Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby mercalia » 17 Oct 2020, 1:18pm

My RSX 8 speed triple shifters have been going string for 20 years and the rear is ised a lot

djb
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013, 9:27pm

Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby djb » 17 Oct 2020, 1:47pm

Brucey wrote:running whilst badly lubricated and persistently missing shifts can wear the pawls inside the shifter. However one of the other faults of this type which can occur is if the shifter has been run maladjusted, such that the cable is set too tight, so the mech is well into the H limit screw before the shifter has a chance to latch. This results in the shifter trying to latch under excessive tension. In addition when downshifts are attempted the shifter is again overstrained during release and furthermore it will slam into the next detent too, all at pressures far higher than the mech spring alone would normally generate. Not all models are equally reliable (and there are several different Tiagra models BTW) but this sort of thing can provoke premature wear or breakage even in normally reliable STI variants.

Provided they are kept well lubricated and adjusted, most STI units last reasonably well, and if they do, they are reasonable VFM I suppose. However I am not 100% sold on them for all kinds of reasons; running a friction shifter with the FD is no real bother and allows you to mix and match other shifting/braking components to a greater extent than you might be able to otherwise.

Depending on how you ride/shift you can have shifters on the down tube, on the bar end, on the stem, under the tops, over the tops, or mounted alongside the brake lever hoods; your choice.

cheers


good point on how wear can occur. I have some 10 yr old Tiagras that I lubricate using a teflon based spray (no residue) once or twice a season, and I agree that if things are adjusted properly, over time the factory grease that is inside will dry out, so if you go the spray route like I do, you must do it once in a while.

sti's have a very good track record of working a long time if things are adjusted properly and they are taken care of.
Given their complexity, I didnt even want to think about trying to do an internal regreasing, so the easy "spray liberally from the side while holding the shifter in a shift position to expose the open side" technique is both easy, fast and clean. Keeps friction down inside to reduce any wear.
The spray I use is most likely a Canadian brand, called Jig-a-Loo. Weird name, but its super slippery and not leaving a sticky resideu like wd40 is important. Fairly certain its a teflon based lube. With the small tube on spray can, easy to use and to spray into innards well.

nick1854
Posts: 27
Joined: 6 Nov 2016, 8:39am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby nick1854 » 18 Oct 2020, 8:53am

I went for a ride yesterday after I had posted about this and it worked perfectly! I have been replacing the drive train (chainrings, cassette, chain and jockey wheels) and trying to get the shifting just right and I think I have it now......and then I started getting a click from the crank area. Not just a click but an intermitant one, the worst kind. It happens each revolution of the crank at the same place.

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cycleruk
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Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby cycleruk » 18 Oct 2020, 10:15am

nick1854 wrote:I went for a ride yesterday after I had posted about this and it worked perfectly! I have been replacing the drive train (chainrings, cassette, chain and jockey wheels) and trying to get the shifting just right and I think I have it now......and then I started getting a click from the crank area. Not just a click but an intermitant one, the worst kind. It happens each revolution of the crank at the same place.

Sorry a bit pedantic I know but if the click occurs at the same place every rev' it's consistent, not intermittent. :wink:
Anyway, as you have had the chainrings off then I would start with checking that the chainring bolts are tight. I presume you had the crankarm off as well, to change the rings, so again check that is also tight. Hope this helps.
You'll never know if you don't try it.

nick1854
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Joined: 6 Nov 2016, 8:39am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby nick1854 » 18 Oct 2020, 1:03pm

Yes slightly pendantic, but also helpful. Just checked the chainring bolts and they needed nipping up a bit more. Test ride soon. Thanks.

nick1854
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Joined: 6 Nov 2016, 8:39am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby nick1854 » 22 Oct 2020, 2:35pm

So nipping up the chainring bolts didn't cure the click. As I'd taken the cranks off to replace the chainrings I reset those pre-loading the cranks etc. etc. It still clicked. Then after 9 more miles of riding it just stopped. Now silent and shifting perfectly.

landsurfer
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Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby landsurfer » 22 Oct 2020, 3:56pm

cycleruk wrote:
nick1854 wrote:I went for a ride yesterday after I had posted about this and it worked perfectly! I have been replacing the drive train (chainrings, cassette, chain and jockey wheels) and trying to get the shifting just right and I think I have it now......and then I started getting a click from the crank area. Not just a click but an intermitant one, the worst kind. It happens each revolution of the crank at the same place.

Sorry a bit pedantic I know but if the click occurs at the same place every rev' it's consistent, not intermittent. :wink:
Anyway, as you have had the chainrings off then I would start with checking that the chainring bolts are tight. I presume you had the crankarm off as well, to change the rings, so again check that is also tight. Hope this helps.


Hi John, I changed the pedals and BB on mine before i found the click was from my shoes .... :roll:
Be More Mike.
The Road Goes On Forever

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cycleruk
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Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby cycleruk » 23 Oct 2020, 3:30pm

Coincidentally I was going to suggest possible pedal threads as another source of clicks but that doesn't matter now with the noise disappearing. I've had things clicking now and again and you just have to take a logical approach until it's cured.
I do have an intermittent noise on one of my bikes which I have not been able to source. Currently not there and I'd swear that it is to do with the mudguards. Until next time :roll: :)
You'll never know if you don't try it.

nick1854
Posts: 27
Joined: 6 Nov 2016, 8:39am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Shimano STI Shifters

Postby nick1854 » 24 Oct 2020, 9:29am

I did consider the pedals but they seemed OK. I am back to riding without listening for clicks....Thanks for the suggestions.