A salutary tale......caveat emptor

[neilob]

Maybe a timely warning for forum users that is even more important during these strange times. This is a short story of a recent transaction during which I bought an item from another forum member. I am not going to name names or describe the item so that it can be identified but I want to highlight the key issues we should consider to protect ourselves. I have been a happy member of the CTC/Cycling UK forum for many years using it to buy and sell many items. Many members have done business with me, all I hope with good experience of a fair and honest deal. So a couple of weeks ago I spotted an item for sale and eventually made an offer which was accepted. As usual, photos were provided along with a glowing description using terminology which implied way above average condition. I paid by bank transfer and after a short delay (and some confusion) the item arrived by courier. Although in reasonable condition, it certainly didn’t match the glowing description provided and it was disappointing. I contacted the seller to express my concerns and request a review and refund on the basis of not matching the description but a door was slammed in my face on the basis that ‘you got a bargain!’. Then he refused to engage in any further debate and doesn’t answer my private messages. Because form members can hide behind anonymity and user names, there is nowhere to go! The only tangible thing I have is the seller’s bank account details which I am asking my bank to intervene and arbitrate. My warning to you all is please use PayPal when buying items, and don’t attempt to save a couple of quid by asking for friends and family. PayPal provides guarantees in the event that items are not as described whereas, of course, bank accounts usually don’t.

[manc68]

Sorry to hear that, I’ve bought and sold a number of items over the years and never had a problem. Hopefully your experience is just a glitch

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Yes PayPal all the way.
Just recently brought from a online supplier looks like a large firm but you never know these days.
As soon as I paid they said Nill stock but it was a bargain so I thought I'd hold out for it to arrive.
Time came and went and still no sign of my goods.
so I emailed them eventually I emailed them no less than three times and didn't get any reply whatsoever now three weeks overdue and nearly 2 months from when I paid.
In my last email I warned them I would go for a resolution with PayPal if they did not reply, they did not reply.
But an email from PayPal no doubt sent a rocket up them and they replied to me promptly and said they have my goods do I want them
my goods arrived in a few days, but they did not reply to the PayPal notice so the case is still open, I had to close it myself yesterday.
Move into the 21st-century

[Sweep]

Looks like some replies to your post have vanished.
Mine.
Seems fair to me that a refund should have been allowed if you could come to some arrangement on carriage back.

Questions from me.

Name no names but was this a longstanding poster?

Did they have a history of posting that was primarily in bits of the forum not involved with buying and selling.

I have seen the odd one where either most of their posts are in market areas or their records show that a massive number of their posts appear to have been deleted, which may be an attempt to bury their interests.

I avoid buying from, selling to, let alone giving anything to such folks/shadows.

[martin biggs]

PayPal will not always be any better speaking from experience .

[Cyril Haearn]

Best to arrange to pay after receiving the goods
If they are not as expected one may just return them without paying

[Jdsk]

Sorry to hear about that.

The Money Advice Service: "Shopping and paying safely online"
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/shop-safely-online
Although it's mostly about business to customer rather than personal sales.

I was hoping that MoneySavingExpert would have something on using PayPal in the UK but can't find it. It does have two specific warnings:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/PayPal-Section75/
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/03/paypal-scam-victims-warn-against-fraudsters-who-ask-for--family-/

I mostly use PayPal for this type of payment.

Jonathan

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Strange editing

[simonineaston]

While not knowing the exact circumstances, I'd have thought the offer of a refund if buyer not delighted would be part of the spirit of friendliness & common interest that underlies interaction amongst members of this group...

[neilob]

While not knowing the exact circumstances, I'd have thought the offer of a refund if buyer not delighted would be part of the spirit of friendliness & common interest that underlies interaction amongst members of this group...

I deliberately chose not to name the other party in order to keep some faith in our forum. But yes, I agree that some kind of reasonable discussion should have been the outcome. Just to be clear we are talking about an item at several hundred £, not a fairly cheap component! I could provide evidence of the original listing and description along with the actual photographs showing the clear gap between the two. My message is please be careful and don’t assume that everyone has integrity and honesty.

[richardfm]

Looks like some replies to your post have vanished.

The OP started two threads with slightly different topics but the same body. May be the missing replies are on the other thread. We need a mod to merge them

[simonineaston]

The obvious risk is the fact that membership of this forum is entirely open and unchecked. Members could be anybody... their motives, wide & varied. Without wishing to sound like what I'm going to sound like, things ain't what they used to be.

[Jdsk]

I'm new around here. Was participation previously restricted?

Thanks

Jonathan

[neilob]

The obvious risk is the fact that membership of this forum is entirely open and unchecked. Members could be anybody... their motives, wide & varied. Without wishing to sound like what I'm going to sound like, things ain't what they used to be.

If I remember correctly, there was a debate some years ago whether forum members should also have to be Cycling UK members. This would stop poor behaviours and ensure some form of arbitration if necessary. But.....this isn’t just about me or my experience, it’s about you and yours!

[rjb]

I much prefer to pay and receive funds by a bank transfer. I am happy to trust people on this forum but there's always some rotten eggs, fortunately I haven't encountered any yet. As for PayPal there was some discussion recently on the merits of using it here - viewtopic.php?t=141680

As has been pointed out take every sensible precaution and caveat emptor.