simonhill wrote:The sticky of a guide for new tourers was unstuck after it became a debating ground rather than a list of things to consider.Such is the way of things, I expect this may go the same way.
Agree lets keep it on track. Many of the people posting here don't even tour abroad.....unfortunately threads like this are a magnet for some.
The current official position was linked in the fifth post on the thread and it's been reiterated several times. If there's to be no discussion, that might as well be stuck up somewhere for all to see and left there.
simonhill wrote:The sticky of a guide for new tourers was unstuck after it became a debating ground rather than a list of things to consider.Such is the way of things, I expect this may go the same way.
Agree lets keep it on track. Many of the people posting here don't even tour abroad.....unfortunately threads like this are a magnet for some.
Can't really be an "on track" until 1 Jan 2021. Until them it's just speculating about Brexit (which is what people were discussing). Personally I think the sticky was started a couple of months early and what would be useful is a stick about "EU VISAs after Brexit" which of course can only be know after the situation has been negotiated and settled. Now people can only repeat the Government "holding position" (which says there may be changes) and opinion (which does not help anybody wanting make long tours in EU).
My opinion - un-sticky it and allow a new thread to be started once "EU VISAs after Brexit" can be a factual discussion (after 1 Jan 2021 at the earliest).
Psamathe wrote:My opinion - un-sticky it and allow a new thread to be started once "EU VISAs after Brexit" can be a factual discussion (after 1 Jan 2021 at the earliest).
I agree, as I said in the bit of the post that was missed off the quote above:
"Although I take his point, I said on the first or second page of this post that I think that once things settle down we will need 2 new stickies, one detailing (only the facts) of Entry/Visas and the other a Health one after the demise of EHIC."
This is what I said it in my post on page 1 (7th post on thread):
"I think a couple of stickies (visa and health in Europe) will be a good idea, but probably not till after January 1st."
I think it is worth having this discussion now. We are near the end of November so unless something happens soon we are just over a month from the end of the transition period, with no guarantee of any agreement beyond "rest of the world" for travel post 1/1/2021.
So IMHO it is worth exploring what the "rest of the world" rules imply.
As far as I can see at the moment UK citizens will be allowed to travel within the Schengen area for up to 90 days in any 180 day period. The "within" is significant. It means that you can't just reset the clock by nipping over a border (as was the case with some visas) but you have to leave the Schengen area when your 90 days are up and not return for another 90 days. So no nipping into, for example, Belarus for a week then back into the Schengen area.
As far as I can see at the moment, if you have used up your 90 days you will have to fly home at the end. This should have an impact on planning tours. Especially leaving contingency for unexpected events.
I know that Motor Home users are having to get to grips with this. Those that are "full timing" often used to spend 6 months or more touring the Continent, heading for the Med over winter and coming back in summer. That is no longer legal.
I suspect that monitoring of residency status might be a lot more stringent since the mass migrations from Africa have placed a lot more pressure on the various authorities.
TL;DR - worth discussing now so nobody has a shock when well into planning and booking.
PDQ Mobile wrote:^^ Yes health insurance will be the real killer of travel to Europe. Longer durations will be worst. Any existing conditions and it will become prohibitively expensive I fear. But some of us have known and been saying that for a very long time.
I am more optimistic about phone use because of the easy changing of a SIM to a local one. The providers may reach agreement to maintain market share. If they don't though, expect a bit more cost. And obviously a bit of a faff having a new/different number.
I would be interested in ANY benefits expected by happy leave folk?
Agree, health insurance for those over 65 is likely to be the major limiting factor. I normally spend all summer every year meandering around Europe on my bike anything from 2 to 5 months. As I'm 68 it's looking like my long months meandering in the sun may be stopped due to health insurance limitations. For those who think this won't affect many people (or even care), I've met an awful lot of retired Brit cyclists on my travels who spend more than 3 months cycling in the EU. So I'll keep watching this thread and hope that there is some good news regarding reciprocal arrangements. Personally I find the whole Brexit business really sad, I've made many friends across the EU and met with nothing but kindness during my years travelling there, as far as I'm concerned it's very sad that were leaving for many more reasons than trade. It's one world we all live in.
How much was health insurance to over 65s to countries that were not covered by the EHIC in any case? I haven't bought separate travel insurance for well over a decade as covered by my bank. But say a single trip of 2-3 weeks for under 70s, given that that's working age?
LittleGreyCat wrote:I think it is worth having this discussion now.
I wasn't suggesting that we don't have further discussions, I think they are useful and interesting. However, I do (now) question the validity of this post as a sticky. It was a good idea when first raised by Navrig, but extended discussion/argument/counter views/etc have made it too long winded not to mention contradictory to be an informative sticky. Personally, I would like stickys to be locked and only updated with relevant info after authorisation by the mods. As I said earlier, the touring guide sticky was a good example. It started off a list of things for a new tourer to consider and remained so for a year or more, but then got taken over by people moaning about something. Eventually it drifted far away from the original intention it was removed as a sticky.
Re travel insurance. I have started looking, albeit worldwide and not for Europe, but it isn't cheap for long stay. After 65 it is difficult to get annual policies over 31 days per trip. I've found a single trip max of 90 days with enhanced cover for cycle touring. I suspect over 3 months will be difficult. I also expect European Travel Insurance to become much more expensive in future, as previously most medical incidents would have been covered by EHIC. Now, almost all incidents will result in a claim on the policy.
LittleGreyCat wrote:I think it is worth having this discussion now.
I wasn't suggesting that we don't have further discussions, I think they are useful and interesting. However, I do (now) question the validity of this post as a sticky. It was a good idea when first raised by Navrig, but extended discussion/argument/counter views/etc have made it too long winded not to mention contradictory to be an informative sticky. Personally, I would like stickys to be locked and only updated with relevant info after authorisation by the mods......
I agess and think stickies should be more about presenting useful information rather than information likely to be out of date before anybody gets to act on it ... Hence wait until early next year for the "sticky" when the actual situation will hopefully be sore certain (noting that even the Government web site linked to says that things may change 1 Jan 2021).
I live in France. Brits here fall into one of 3 categories:
1. People like me who have applied for and got French citizenship. We're all good. 2. People who can get or have already got residency permits. Those people are fine in the short term and may well be fine in the long term. 3. People who don't fall into either of the above categories and so are, for all intents and purposes, tourists. They're stuck with the 90/180 day thing which is a big problem for those whose only residence is here. However if you actually are a tourist, you'll be fine, at most needing an entry stamp provided you don't break the 90/180 day rule.
I don't know what the arrangement will be for other European countries but I can't see any of them throwing up barriers to tourists spending money.
The 90/180 day rule is also used for many types of business travel not just tourism. I would have clocked up 90 in 180 in quite a few recent years without counting holidays.
A novice learning... “the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
My guess (lots of ???) is that countries like Portugal, Spain and maybe Greece and France will introduce an easy to get 'tourist extension visa' to facilitate the many long termers that stay each year. This is unlikely to help cyclists much as it would restrict you to that country and you might(??) not be able to enter another country if your overall 90 was up.
In the visa world, the UK has a bad reputation for charging high prices for their visas and putting up lots of barriers. These things are normally reciprocal, so watch out for having to pay for your long Euro holiday.
