Anyone living in new lock down areas?

[simonineaston]

Just in case anyone's not seen it... gov page re new arrangements here.
BTW, apparently half of us are deficient in vitamin D (see here) - how do we know and what do we do about it? (I've never quite got over a work colleague telling me I ought to shine a torch on bare skin behind my knees one winter... )

[Jdsk]

Vitamin D: Current NHS advice:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

That's oral supplementation in winter.

I'd guess that advice will be all year round in the not too distant future as we learn more about the effects of mild deficiency.

Previous discussions:
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=138578&hilit=vitamin+jonathan#p1497939
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=138578&p=1498797&hilit=vitamin+jonathan#p1498337

Jonathan

[mercalia]

[Vorpal]

Is there really vast amounts of malnourished children out there ? the ones I see seem mostly over-fed, even considerably over-fed. Or is it they have been over-fed on take-aways and crisps and even though they are over weight they are malnourished on good foods?

There genuinely are families where each day decisions are made about who will eat and which meals will be missed. There are parents who miss meals they need so that the kids can eat. Food banks reduce the problem, but it doesn't feel to me to be good that in the UK in the 21st century there are families reliant on charity for their food. But it is better that the charities plug the gap if our society isn't willing or able to fix it properly.

It is just I do not see malnourished people in the Newcastle / Sunderland area which are areas that are far from being well-off. And just wondered if you could be malnourished and over-weight at the same time. I'm always wary of what the media tell me.

Yes. It is entirely possible, and increasingly common. Food which poor people are best able to afford often contains more 'empty calories'. Even if people avoid processed food, they may get too many carbohydrates and not enough fresh vegetables. One of the issues with correctly diagnosing this is that the NHS in many areas still use BMI & 'unintentional weight loss' as the main & sometimes only criteria for malnourishment. Obesity and malnourishment can be tied together, and in children, often are.

[Vorpal]

Vitamin D: Current NHS advice:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

That's oral supplementation in winter.

I'd guess that advice will be all year round in the not too distant future as we learn more about the effects of mild deficiency.

Previous discussions:
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=138578&hilit=vitamin+jonathan#p1497939
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=138578&p=1498797&hilit=vitamin+jonathan#p1498337

Jonathan

Although Norway is further north than most of the UK, and people tend to be outside more (so theoretically should get more natural vitamin D, at least in summer) vitamin D supplementation is recommended year round. I believe it is in Denmark, as well.

[Jdsk]

Vitamin D: Current NHS advice:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

That's oral supplementation in winter.

I'd guess that advice will be all year round in the not too distant future as we learn more about the effects of mild deficiency.

Although Norway is further north than most of the UK, and people tend to be outside more (so theoretically should get more natural vitamin D, at least in summer) vitamin D supplementation is recommended year round. I believe it is in Denmark, as well.

The evidence and discussion is very similar in different countries. There's a fair (!) bit of disagreement in whether the risk of deficiency is better met by oral supplementation at the individual level or by fortification of food. But that involves political issues as well as biochemistry.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Marcus Rashford began his hi-lighting of the plight of poor families children because he's been there and seen it first hand in his own upbringing.

That's a very impressive piece of campaigning.

IFS analysis:
"No free lunch? Some pros and cons of holiday free school meals"
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15148

Jonathan

[reohn2]

Marcus Rashford began his hi-lighting of the plight of poor families children because he's been there and seen it first hand in his own upbringing.

That's a very impressive piece of campaigning.

IFS analysis:
"No free lunch? Some pros and cons of holiday free school meals"
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15148

Jonathan

What troubles me is that in the 5th or is it the 6th(?)richest country in the world with a pre covid19 low unemployment level:-

......As of January 2020, 1.4 million pupils – about one-in-six – were eligible for means-tested free meals, bringing the total yearly cost to around £600 million.....

There's something wrong with such a rich society that parents can't afford to feed their children.

[mercalia]

Marcus Rashford began his hi-lighting of the plight of poor families children because he's been there and seen it first hand in his own upbringing.

That's a very impressive piece of campaigning.

IFS analysis:
"No free lunch? Some pros and cons of holiday free school meals"
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15148

Jonathan

What troubles me is that in the 5th or is it the 6th(?)richest country in the world with a pre covid19 low unemployment level:-

......As of January 2020, 1.4 million pupils – about one-in-six – were eligible for means-tested free meals, bringing the total yearly cost to around £600 million.....

What is so wrong with a rich society that parents can't afford to feed their children?

why do you keep on peddling that old mistaken idea of the "rich country". The Uk state has barely enough money to deal with things most of the riches are either in private hands or locked up in property values

[reohn2]

That's a very impressive piece of campaigning.

IFS analysis:
"No free lunch? Some pros and cons of holiday free school meals"
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15148

Jonathan

What troubles me is that in the 5th or is it the 6th(?)richest country in the world with a pre covid19 low unemployment level:-

......As of January 2020, 1.4 million pupils – about one-in-six – were eligible for means-tested free meals, bringing the total yearly cost to around £600 million.....

What is so wrong with a rich society that parents can't afford to feed their children?

why do you keep on peddling that old mistaken idea of the "rich country". The Uk state has barely enough money to deal with things most of the riches are either in private hands or locked up in property values

You make my point for me in the most admirable fashion

[Jdsk]

Vitamin D: Current NHS advice:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

That's oral supplementation in winter.

I'd guess that advice will be all year round in the not too distant future as we learn more about the effects of mild deficiency.

Although Norway is further north than most of the UK, and people tend to be outside more (so theoretically should get more natural vitamin D, at least in summer) vitamin D supplementation is recommended year round. I believe it is in Denmark, as well.

The evidence and discussion is very similar in different countries. There's a fair (!) bit of disagreement in whether the risk of deficiency is better met by oral supplementation at the individual level or by fortification of food. But that involves political issues as well as biochemistry.

Sounds as if there's some imminent initiative:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/14/covid-uk-government-requests-guidance-on-vitamin-d-use

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

Although Norway is further north than most of the UK, and people tend to be outside more (so theoretically should get more natural vitamin D, at least in summer) vitamin D supplementation is recommended year round. I believe it is in Denmark, as well.

The evidence and discussion is very similar in different countries. There's a fair (!) bit of disagreement in whether the risk of deficiency is better met by oral supplementation at the individual level or by fortification of food. But that involves political issues as well as biochemistry.

Sounds as if there's some imminent initiative: (My emphasis)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/14/covid-uk-government-requests-guidance-on-vitamin-d-use

As forecast above:

... People who are able to buy a Vitamin D supplement and start taking them now, ahead of a free delivery, are advised to do so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55108613

That doesn't seem to have triggered panic buying, or any sort of buying at all - except I shelled out to buy some this am

[Tangled Metal]

What's your general approach as what I assume is a medical professional? In my position would you follow restriction boundaries based on actual infection rates in other areas or would you take the advisory wording as a get out to allow a more commonsense personal approach of sticking to areas with similar infection rates irrespective of government imposed tiers?

I think that you're putting too much emphasis on areas with lower or higher rates and the boundaries between them.

My personal approach is to get my volume and closeness and nature of contacts way below the guidance, let alone the law. The lower the better.

Jonathan

It's not just infection rates, number if cases, number at highest risk ages, demand or strain on NHS services, etc. If they're all low then you're in a better situation than many tier 2, southern areas for risk.

Tiers around this neck of the woods mean nothing. Absolutely irrelevant. The reason being tier 2 and tier 3 areas share NHS services, have similar levels of the 5 criteria looked at by three government in their decision. Basically sticking in tier 3 or visiting tier 2 as we normally would before lockdown and pandemic restrictions offer no more risk according to the key data the government uses. The only increase in risk is the higher population in Lancaster area that means retail stores are busier than say kendal stores. More chances of meeting an asymptomatic covid carrier where there's more people.. it takes us what 10 minutes extra to reach kendal DIY stores than Lancaster ones and they seem to have stock unlike Lancaster.

Reducing risk is very important but I do not think county wide tiers do that.

[Oldjohnw]

I am right now sitting in my car In Kelso, Scotland where my wife has a medical appointment. It's funny seeing all the shops and hotels open. The police have been stopping local folk going to England to shop and redirecting them to Scottish supermarkets.

[Gew]

Gosh, I'm currently situated in a European country where the law is prohibiting a formal lockdown, so here people are more or less living their lives, albeit this friggin' disease is taking lives each and every day. It's so sad. People even take the bus on short routes. I use my bicycle, and only that.