'Professional' drivers.

[Boring_Username]

In my experience:

a) professional drivers tend to pay attention to what they are doing, but are sometimes aggressive
b) "amateur" drivers tend not to be aggressive, but sometimes don't pay attention

Personally, I get more grief from (b) than from (a).

[pwa]

People who drive for a living are some of the least courteous, quite often downright dangerous drivers on the road in my experience. Maybe it's complacency or sense of entitlement, I don't know.

I stopped reading at that point, knowing as I do people who drive for a living and who don't deserve that insult.

Fair enough.

Maybe if you'd read on you might understand why I was a bit miffed to say the least.

(and it wasn't intended as an insult - just an observation)

I think anyone who has ever cycled on roads will agree that there are some seriously deficient drivers earning a living behind a steering wheel. But I personally know some who are not like that. Let's give the bad ones the criticism they deserve, while at the same time recognising that there are decent ones too. I met a Tesco delivery van on a narrow lane a few days ago. The driver pulled over to make room for me, even though I thought we had room to pass without him doing that. I waved my thanks and he waved back with a smile. I expect your annoyance is based on genuine experience and is justified, but it isn't fair to have a go at absolutely everyone who drives for a living just because you have had bad experiences with some who drive for a living.

[ChrisP100]

I stopped reading at that point, knowing as I do people who drive for a living and who don't deserve that insult.

Fair enough.

Maybe if you'd read on you might understand why I was a bit miffed to say the least.

(and it wasn't intended as an insult - just an observation)

I think anyone who has ever cycled on roads will agree that there are some seriously deficient drivers earning a living behind a steering wheel. But I personally know some who are not like that. Let's give the bad ones the criticism they deserve, while at the same time recognising that there are decent ones too. I met a Tesco delivery van on a narrow lane a few days ago. The driver pulled over to make room for me, even though I thought we had room to pass without him doing that. I waved my thanks and he waved back with a smile. I expect your annoyance is based on genuine experience and is justified, but it isn't fair to have a go at absolutely everyone who drives for a living just because you have had bad experiences with some who drive for a living.

I was still a little bit shaken up when I wrote the OP, and didn't really word it properly. I certainly didn't intend to tar all professional drivers with the same brush. Having done a fair amount of driving as part of my job in the past covering the length and breadth of the UK (BE, C1, D1E) I understand what other professional drivers go through, and it was more an observation that some people who drive for a living should really be better drivers.

[DaveReading]

In my experience:

a) professional drivers tend to pay attention to what they are doing, but are sometimes aggressive
b) "amateur" drivers tend not to be aggressive, but sometimes don't pay attention

Personally, I get more grief from (b) than from (a).

For someone who's in charge of a ton or more of moving metal, aggression is the last characteristic you want.

[pwa]

Fair enough.

Maybe if you'd read on you might understand why I was a bit miffed to say the least.

(and it wasn't intended as an insult - just an observation)

I think anyone who has ever cycled on roads will agree that there are some seriously deficient drivers earning a living behind a steering wheel. But I personally know some who are not like that. Let's give the bad ones the criticism they deserve, while at the same time recognising that there are decent ones too. I met a Tesco delivery van on a narrow lane a few days ago. The driver pulled over to make room for me, even though I thought we had room to pass without him doing that. I waved my thanks and he waved back with a smile. I expect your annoyance is based on genuine experience and is justified, but it isn't fair to have a go at absolutely everyone who drives for a living just because you have had bad experiences with some who drive for a living.

I was still a little bit shaken up when I wrote the OP, and didn't really word it properly. I certainly didn't intend to tar all professional drivers with the same brush. Having done a fair amount of driving as part of my job in the past covering the length and breadth of the UK (BE, C1, D1E) I understand what other professional drivers go through, and it was more an observation that some people who drive for a living should really be better drivers.

Understood. And we are on the same wavelength now. Like you, I have often had some driving as part of my job, and if I am honest I must say that occasionally I have had to do a bit of self reflection when my driving hasn't been as careful as I like to think it is. But I have always intended driving well, and with some drivers you do wonder if they care at all. And these days, with all the extra delivery driver jobs, there must be a lot of newcomers making a living from driving. Many of them in an agitated state because of the workload and pressure of time. Driving whilst in a poor state of mind is bound to lead to rubbish driving. Some drivers are rubbish whatever their workload, and they are just in the wrong job.

[Cyril Haearn]

People who drive for a living are some of the least courteous, quite often downright dangerous drivers on the road in my experience. Maybe it's complacency or sense of entitlement, I don't know.

I stopped reading at that point, knowing as I do people who drive for a living and who don't deserve that insult.

Many do, many do not, he did not write 'all'. Often enough the t-word is appropriate

Whatabout the many who park on cycle ways and footways to save walking a few steps? What can be done about these scum?

[Cyril Haearn]

Facts are: they kill many of us. We kill none of them
..
As a careful driver I did not mind being perceived as 'guilty until proved innocent'

[Jdsk]

Facts are: they kill many of us. We kill none of them

There's an enormous logical flaw in that analysis: the same people might at different times be cyclists, pedestrians, unpaid drivers and paid drivers.

The division of people in advance into them and us doesn't match the real world. And doesn't offer any practical routes to reducing deaths and other harms from "accidents".

It shouldn't be necessary to have to spell this out but it clearly is. People driving vehicles kill people who aren't. And the opposite is very very uncommon.

Jonathan

[reohn2]

In my experience:

a) professional drivers tend to pay attention to what they are doing, but are sometimes aggressive
b) "amateur" drivers tend not to be aggressive, but sometimes don't pay attention

Personally, I get more grief from (b) than from (a).

IME I can't judge which will be the next dangerous driver,so my approach is never to trust any other driver,always expect the unexpected and accept that every other driver on the road is out to kill me

[Oldjohnw]

I don't assume that other drivers are out to kill me. I do assume that they might make an error of judgement or have some momentary distraction. Just like all of us at some time. Bar none.

He who is without sin.....

[Jdsk]

I don't assume that other drivers are out to kill me. I do assume that they might make an error of judgement or have some momentary distraction. Just like all of us at some time. Bar none.

Same here. Both on wariness without paranoia and on my own mistakes.

Jonathan

[ChrisP100]

In my experience:

a) professional drivers tend to pay attention to what they are doing, but are sometimes aggressive
b) "amateur" drivers tend not to be aggressive, but sometimes don't pay attention

Personally, I get more grief from (b) than from (a).

IME I can't judge which will be the next dangerous driver,so my approach is never to trust any other driver,always expect the unexpected and accept that every other driver on the road is out to kill me

That is something I do as a driver, a cyclist and a pedestrian. I find eye contact to be a pretty good indication that someone has seen you, but it doesn't always mean they are going to react as you might expect them to.

[Cyril Haearn]

Often best not to make eye contact, keep them guessing
See live thread about flashing headlights, apparently that is done for all sorts of wrong purposes

[Jdsk]

Often best not to make eye contact, keep them guessing

This is dangerous advice and is contrary to what most teachers recommend.

As in earlier posts: make eye contact but be prepared for the worst.

Jonathan

[Oldjohnw]

Often best not to make eye contact, keep them guessing
See live thread about flashing headlights, apparently that is done for all sorts of wrong purposes

That sounds like the inconsiderate driving you deplore in others.