Would you take a vaccine against CV? Vote now please!

[Vorpal]

Actually, I think the government are doing pretty well with vaccination. Distribution & vaccination are going much more slowly in other countries that I am aware of. I have lots of friends & relatives in the USA, and the only one that has received a vaccine is a pharmacist who is doing vaccinating, despite a number of friends or relatives who work in health care, work with vulnerable people, or who are themselves, elderly and at risk from covid.

In Norway, I do not know anyone who has even received a text message saying they should make an appointment. I do know people who work in health care. I am not well enough acquainted with anyone over 80 to know if they've been vaccinated. I did read in the newspaper that vaccination of care home residents and staff, health care workers, and other vulnerable people was well under way, and and the over 70s should soon receive text messages, indicating when they can make appointments (those without mobile phones will receive letters).

It's clear that it's not going perfectly. And I think that it is too much to expect many people to go somewhere a 45 minute *drive* away for a vaccination.

And like everything else, they have promised far more than they are capable of delivering.

However, all of my elderly relatives in the UK have received their first jabs. So, even if pretty much everything else the government have done with regards to the pandemic has been absolutely dire, they do seem to be handling the vaccination okay.

[djnotts]

I agree that doing better than elsewhere and than they have handled the pandemic itself.
It's the failure to be honest that as always is most annoying. No explanation of missed targets. No revision of categories schedules. No regional/demographic breakdown of those vaccinated. Patchy coverage. Change of terminology, in particular "receive" to "offered". Seeming lack of central oversight, never mind control.
Repeated raising and dashing of "hope".

[Oldjohnw]

The government may be doing ok with delivering this one - perhaps not outsourcing to their mates helps?

But yesterday the Conservative Party tweeted how they were #1 in Europe, within hours of it being announced that we had reached over 100,000 deaths and a daily record.

I am afraid that my praise is somewhat muted

[Psamathe]

Oh dear. What does this say

Pimlico Plumbers to introduce 'no jab, no job' work contracts
“No vaccine, no job,” Pimlico’s Mullins said in an interview with City A.M. “When we go off to Africa and Caribbean countries, we have to have a jab for malaria – we don’t think about it, we just do it.

(my bold and colour)

In all my travels to malarial regions I've never had a jab for malaria (I've taken pills but never a vaccination, never a jab).

Ian

[Jdsk]

Oh dear. What does this say

Pimlico Plumbers to introduce 'no jab, no job' work contracts
“No vaccine, no job,” Pimlico’s Mullins said in an interview with City A.M. “When we go off to Africa and Caribbean countries, we have to have a jab for malaria – we don’t think about it, we just do it.

(my bold and colour)

In all my travels to malarial regions I've never had a jab for malaria (I've taken pills but never a vaccination, never a jab).

Neither have they, except possibly in trials or pilot projects:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria_vaccine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria#Vaccine

Jonathan

[531colin]

Oh dear. What does this say

Pimlico Plumbers to introduce 'no jab, no job' work contracts
“No vaccine, no job,” Pimlico’s Mullins said in an interview with City A.M. “When we go off to Africa and Caribbean countries, we have to have a jab for malaria – we don’t think about it, we just do it.

(my bold and colour)

In all my travels to malarial regions I've never had a jab for malaria (I've taken pills but never a vaccination, never a jab).

Ian

Its to be hoped their plumbing is better than their biology.

[djnotts]

Presumably recruiting in age order - over 80s, then over 75s and sack over 80s, and so and on....appears to think can have vaccine on demand!

[simonineaston]

I remember malaria pills with a shudder... on one occasion, my tummy rejected one, and I was astonished at how far across the room the contents were propelled by my muscles...

[Jdsk]

Populations already had a 40-60% immunity rate as proven by the testing earlier in the year on blood taken from previous years.

Please quote your sources.

If you're referring to the sort of studies described here they're about T-cell reactivity not immunity:
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

(We don't know the population immunity rate for COVID-19.)

IPSO ruling on the Telegraph and Toby Young's piece:
https://www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/?id=11845-20

"13. The complaint was upheld."

Or to put it another way... don't talk nonsense and don't tell lies. I'd have included "especially when there's a major crisis of public health".

Jonathan

[djnotts]

All seems a bit of a shambles, at least in Notts. Four sources of letters - some getting two! No mass vaccination centre within 45 miles. E Mids clearly losing out from being for NHS purposes just an outlier of the Midlands. GPs rumoured to have opted out.
I was relatively optimistic and still would be if I lived in most other places, but not in Nottingham - especially being just outside the City Unitary Authority boundary.

[Psamathe]

Can vaccination course shortcomings work like antibiotic resistance? By which I mean, if somebody is vaccinated but fails to get timely boosters and their immunity fades, can this apply a selective pressure on the virus where partially resistant particles are more likely to survive and spread, just as e.g. stopping a course of antibiotics early can allow resistant variants to survive and spread?

I (at least partially) understand antibiotic resistance mechanisms but viruses are very different so assuming the same mechanisms might not be valid.

Ian

[Psamathe]

Vaccinated people are preparing to meet others believing they are ‘good to go’, government adviser warns

I do wonder how widespread this "belief" is. The report is about people assuming immediate immunity following 1st jab (i.e. next day) but also I think many might see the vaccination as allowing them more freedom. My Mum is housebound but every week/fortnight she gets taken to the supermarket (though waits in the car and isn't taken in - but for her it's out of the house, see local countryside for 2x10 mile drive, etc.). That does not happen during current lockdown but she believes that once vaccinated she'll be able to resume these "outings". And maybe have friends round, etc. (she wont but she believes she could).

I do think Government is over-selling the vaccine. I've not seen any update beyond the low 60% for the Oxford (which most people are getting) which to my mind makes it not so useful on an individual basis but crucial on a population basis. Yet Government is really pushing "protect the vulnerable" which suggests once somebody vaccinated they are protected but it only works statistically on a population wide basis.

Ian

[pwa]

Vaccinated people are preparing to meet others believing they are ‘good to go’, government adviser warns

I do wonder how widespread this "belief" is. The report is about people assuming immediate immunity following 1st jab (i.e. next day) but also I think many might see the vaccination as allowing them more freedom. My Mum is housebound but every week/fortnight she gets taken to the supermarket (though waits in the car and isn't taken in - but for her it's out of the house, see local countryside for 2x10 mile drive, etc.). That does not happen during current lockdown but she believes that once vaccinated she'll be able to resume these "outings". And maybe have friends round, etc. (she wont but she believes she could).

I do think Government is over-selling the vaccine. I've not seen any update beyond the low 60% for the Oxford (which most people are getting) which to my mind makes it not so useful on an individual basis but crucial on a population basis. Yet Government is really pushing "protect the vulnerable" which suggests once somebody vaccinated they are protected but it only works statistically on a population wide basis.

Ian

I agree, but we should remember also that the Oxford vaccine seems to provide a high level of protection against serious illness from Covid even in those 40% not prevented from catching it at all. It appears to give close to 100% protection against severe Covid symptoms.

[Psamathe]

Vaccinated people are preparing to meet others believing they are ‘good to go’, government adviser warns

I do wonder how widespread this "belief" is. The report is about people assuming immediate immunity following 1st jab (i.e. next day) but also I think many might see the vaccination as allowing them more freedom. My Mum is housebound but every week/fortnight she gets taken to the supermarket (though waits in the car and isn't taken in - but for her it's out of the house, see local countryside for 2x10 mile drive, etc.). That does not happen during current lockdown but she believes that once vaccinated she'll be able to resume these "outings". And maybe have friends round, etc. (she wont but she believes she could).

I do think Government is over-selling the vaccine. I've not seen any update beyond the low 60% for the Oxford (which most people are getting) which to my mind makes it not so useful on an individual basis but crucial on a population basis. Yet Government is really pushing "protect the vulnerable" which suggests once somebody vaccinated they are protected but it only works statistically on a population wide basis.

Ian

I agree, but we should remember also that the Oxford vaccine seems to provide a high level of protection against serious illness from Covid even in those 40% not prevented from catching it at all. It appears to give close to 100% protection against severe Covid symptoms.

! also agree but, if you are in the 40% and still catch the less serious disease you can probably still spread it but from the story Gov. are selling us I can see a lot of people acting as "I'm immune so I can go mix with friends, burst my bubbles, no need for hand-washing, etc."

Ian

[Jdsk]

Can vaccination course shortcomings work like antibiotic resistance? By which I mean, if somebody is vaccinated but fails to get timely boosters and their immunity fades, can this apply a selective pressure on the virus where partially resistant particles are more likely to survive and spread, just as e.g. stopping a course of antibiotics early can allow resistant variants to survive and spread?

It could, but AFAIK it's not a major worry at the moment amongst people who know more than me.

But that mechanism is illustrated by the idea that new variants might well be appearing in immunocompromised patients. That's widely thought to be true.

Jonathan