Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

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mattheus
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by mattheus »

pwa wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 4:54am But it is still irritating to have ones own need to cut down car use highlighted time after time by folk whose means of having a nice holiday results in more greenhouse gas damage in a couple of flights than I manage in a year with a car. I know I need to cut down my car use, and I'm making progress in the right direction, but I don't want folk with even bigger failings pointing at mine whilst ignoring their own. That isn't right and it makes no sense. I look forward to seeing climate change protesters disrupting access to Heathrow, which so far seems to have escaped their attention, unlike terrestrial public transport.
Heathrow you say? Have you tried Google?
Heathrow 13: climate change protesters avoid jail - The ...https://www.theguardian.com › environment › feb › he...
Heathrow 13: climate change protesters avoid jail ... Six women and seven men have avoided jail for trespassing at Heathrow, following a protest against the ...
24 Feb 2016
In 2019 there was a planned drone attack - you'll actually get loads of that from Google. Drones (and similar action) are a tricky area due to the safety issues around crashing a jumbo full of Emma Thompsons, which might be bad PR.
DevonDamo
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by DevonDamo »

pwa wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 4:54amBut it is still irritating to have ones own need to cut down car use highlighted time after time by folk whose means of having a nice holiday results in more greenhouse gas damage in a couple of flights than I manage in a year with a car. I know I need to cut down my car use, and I'm making progress in the right direction, but I don't want folk with even bigger failings pointing at mine whilst ignoring their own. That isn't right and it makes no sense. I look forward to seeing climate change protesters disrupting access to Heathrow, which so far seems to have escaped their attention, unlike terrestrial public transport.
My last post attempted to explain the devastatingly-effective 'look - a squirrel!' tactic which so many have been taken in by - i.e. being distracted from what climate protesters are really saying ('we're in big trouble and need legislative action') by what the right wing media want you to think they're saying ('look at me in my Prius and woven sandals - I'm better than you.')

If you believe the overwhelming evidence that climate change is going to create a nightmare scenario for humanity, then what you've written above is analogous to someone standing in a pool of petrol complaining that the person demanding that the petrol be pumped away tuts every time he gets his cigarettes out, which isn't fair because he should be tutting at the guys over there about to fire up their barbecue.

It might be more effective if the likes of Extinction Rebellion, Greta Thunberg et al made a point of travelling everywhere by LearJet, just to emphasise to the public - we're not telling you to be like us, we're telling you to support Government action to change the behaviour of people like us (and the car manufacturers and petrochemical industries etc etc.) This might pull the rug out from the right wing media's tactic of distracting the gullible public from thinking about the real issue with a hypocrisy scandal which they've manufactured.
thirdcrank
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by thirdcrank »

My last post attempted to explain the devastatingly-effective etc ...
FWIW A completely failed attempt for me, as is this latest restatement
mattheus
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by mattheus »

thirdcrank wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 1:05pm
My last post attempted to explain the devastatingly-effective etc ...
FWIW A completely failed attempt for me, as is this latest restatement
Well I think DevonDamo made good points, and quite lucidly. Open to interpretation, I guess

Do you think Greta is preaching mainly at governments, or individuals? [Please, no more Emma Thompson comparisons!]
DevonDamo
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by DevonDamo »

thirdcrank wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 1:05pm
My last post attempted to explain the devastatingly-effective etc ...
FWIW A completely failed attempt for me, as is this latest restatement
That's fair enough - the point I'm making could be seen as a bit of a slap in the face for those in this thread who've been focused on the perceived hypocrisy of activists like the OP, and I can understand why you wouldn't be impressed by it. For what it's worth, I don't hold the Great British public to blame for being taken in by all this - the oil industry are masters at managing PR to keep the public off their backs:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l7q0
thirdcrank
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by thirdcrank »

I've no problem with the case you are making, but rather the way you make that case.
DevonDamo
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by DevonDamo »

thirdcrank wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 2:03pmI've no problem with the case you are making...
How would you know? If my attempt at making that point is 'completely failed' then I could be calling for compulsory helmets for cyclists for all you know...

I jest, of course but it's a serious issue though - if the current 'focus on any hypocrisy and ignore the message' stuff had held sway throughout history, we'd have no common land, no votes for non-land-owning men or any women, no trade unions, no....
Carlton green
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by Carlton green »

DevonDamo wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 1:43pm
thirdcrank wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 1:05pm
My last post attempted to explain the devastatingly-effective etc ...
FWIW A completely failed attempt for me, as is this latest restatement
That's fair enough - the point I'm making could be seen as a bit of a slap in the face for those in this thread who've been focused on the perceived hypocrisy of activists like the OP, and I can understand why you wouldn't be impressed by it. For what it's worth, I don't hold the Great British public to blame for being taken in by all this - the oil industry are masters at managing PR to keep the public off their backs:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l7q0
I’m surprised that anyone wouldn’t have fairly readily grasped the points that you made, they seemed clear and simple enough to me. Oh course if someone is quite blinkered then I suppose that they’re not going to see to fuller picture ...

There’s been quite a lot of whingeing about the OP, more constructive would have been offers of overnight accommodation on-route and offers to cycle part or all of the journey with him.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
slowster
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by slowster »

Optics matter. I think most modern campaigning organisations will tell their members and supporters not to speak to anyone in the media, and to leave all such communications to members who have received media training. In 2019 probably most in Extinction Rebellion were very inexperienced in that regard. To them and her, Emma Thompson probably seemed a good choice to speak to the press as a supporter with a high positive profile and extensive experience of media interviews. They and she learned the hard way.

It's difficult to gain any major advantage with media interviews, but it is easy to cause self-inflicted damage or get stitched up by a journalist. Someone can think they've given a great interview, only for the video to be edited to misrepresent them. At COP26 journalists from some news organisations will probably not identify themselves as such, and will try to insinuate themselves amongst campaigners and befriend people in order to find material they can use for an article.
mattheus
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by mattheus »

thirdcrank wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 2:03pm I've no problem with the case you are making, but rather the way you make that case.
Does that make any difference, if you are thinking about the kind of world our grand-children will inherit?

"Sorry about the sea-levels, but the activists were SOOOO hypocritical; we decided to carry on as we were."
thirdcrank
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by thirdcrank »

IMO if you are trying to influence people, the way you make your case can be very important.
mattheus
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Location: Western Europe

Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by mattheus »

thirdcrank wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 2:36pm IMO if you are trying to influence people, the way you make your case can be very important.
It seems you may not be debating in good faith then.

Are you convinced by the campaigners, or not? Do you want to help their case? Or do you prefer to snipe from the side lines?
Oldjohnw
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by Oldjohnw »

Little wonder we make so little progress when we spend more time shooting at each other even though we all want the same thing! I wonder if this little page is a microcosm of the wider campaigning world :)
John
thirdcrank
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Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by thirdcrank »

I'm reflecting on whether it's time to stop beating my wife.
mattheus
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Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

Post by mattheus »

thirdcrank wrote: 9 Sep 2021, 4:02pm I'm reflecting on whether it's time to stop beating my wife.
:lol:
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