cycle only crossings?

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mjr
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by mjr »

Pete Owens wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 11:38am
mjr wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 11:39am I think the layout means you can still ride across the pelican against red if it's quiet and you don't want to wait, but doing the same on the cycle crossing 5m away would attract a fine.
Riding on the pedestrian side of a segregated path is also illegal - so while you can legally ride on the bit where it crosses the carriageway while the red man is lit (but not when the green man is lit) you cannot approach the the crossing on the footway.
NCR 1 is wide there (full width rail trail) and not segregated either side of the crossings, so you can approach either on cycleway. On the south side, a cycleway with foot use continues past the pedestrian crossing to a school. It seems a very odd layout to me, but it doesn't seem to fall foul of any standard or guidance (except that if built to today's guidance, that one to the school would be segregated but I'm in no hurry to lobby for that).
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thirdcrank
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by thirdcrank »

IMO it's easy to lose sight of the (urban) jungle by concentrating on the thick undergrowth. (Perhaps that's something to do with the menagerie of crossings.)

Here's a streetview of what was quite a longstanding contraflow cycle track on Wellington Street into City Square, Leeds, as it was in 2008. The track continues to cross Quebec Street which passes beyond the white building on the left
Screenshot (30).png
Below is a closeup of the traffic lights controlling the cycle crossing of Quebec Street
Screenshot (31).png
That cycle track has now been incorporated in the Cycle Superhighway
Screenshot (28).png
Here are the new low-level cycle-specific traffic lights on the crossing of Quebec Street
Screenshot (29).png
So what's the problem? This is on City Square where Leeds City Council would love to ban private motor vehicles, but Quebec Street must carry some of the heaviest motor traffic in the city centre. Why so?

Thanks to a forerunner of streetview here's an image of the junction of Victoria Road and Meadow Lane in 1937.

Except for the tarmac over the cobbles and the removal of the tram tracks, that's pretty much how it still was in 1968 when I stood in the middle of that road in a long white mac directing traffic. A couple of years later the M1 and M621 were extended into the "Motorway City of the Seventies" and funnelled into City Square, a situation which largely persists. Quebec Street is the main route for that traffic out of City Square, which is why the highwaymen are so keen to keep the swarming pedestrians and the cyclists "out of the road."

Here's the current view of the junction which used to be controlled by the likes of li'l ol' me
Screenshot (32).png
Pete Owens
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by Pete Owens »

mjr wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 8:52pm NCR 1 is wide there (full width rail trail) and not segregated either side of the crossings, so you can approach either on cycleway. On the south side, a cycleway with foot use continues past the pedestrian crossing to a school.
So where are the detectors located?
If someone rides from the school on the cycleway resembling a pavement will they trigger the lights to change?
colin54
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by colin54 »

Here's a cycle specific one on the new separated two way cycle path passing the Liver Building in Liverpool, note the white car is turning left on the green signal,
The bike light is on red (a high and low light unit) avoiding the 'left hook', when the bike light is green the road light is red .There are bike specific lights controlling the new bike lane crossing the dual carriageway at another crossing a bit further down the road where it switches sides, they are timed with the pedestrian crossing lights that cross alongside them I think.
P1160439 (2).JPG
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LancsGirl
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by LancsGirl »

colin54 wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 4:58pm Here's a cycle specific one on the new separated two way cycle path passing the Liver Building in Liverpool, note the white car is turning left on the green signal,
The bike light is on red (a high and low light unit) avoiding the 'left hook', when the bike light is green the road light is red .There are bike specific lights controlling the new bike lane crossing the dual carriageway at another crossing a bit further down the road where it switches sides, they are timed with the pedestrian crossing lights that cross alongside them I think.

P1160439 (2).JPG
Thanks for that. Interesting that in this case the top red light is a picture of a bike, unlike Gaz's example (2nd post in the thread) which is a solid red, like a red light on the main highway.

I'm not sure whether a picture of a bike, in red, as per the Liverpool example is better or worse. It's good because it's like saying - "this applies to you, cyclist, stop!!", but it's bad because cyclists who are used to seeing the "advisory" red cycle at toucans might ignore it. Maybe.

Thinking about it, there might be a "cycle only crossing" on one of my regular routes. But as I observe it religiously I may not have noticed that it is one. It's at a junction where to ignore the red cycle would be suicidal, a bit like colin54's example. Should there be a solid stop line in Colin's example?
Last edited by LancsGirl on 22 Dec 2021, 10:34pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RickH
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by RickH »

There are cycle traffic lights round the new Cyclops junctions being built locally (1 so far in Bolton & 2 others, I think, elsewhere in Greater Manchester). They have a cycling green phase that covers all of the junction - if you are quick & it isn't busy, it is possible (if pointless) to do a full 360 degrees in one green phase (don't ask me how I know :twisted: ). You also have a bypass of the lights if you are turning left into any of the arms that permit it (the 4th has a 2 way cycle lane alongside the one way general lane).

Here's a very very short video (not mine) showing a right turn
colin54
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by colin54 »

LancsGirl wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 10:03pm Should there be a solid stop line in Colin's example?
I can't quite recall the exact layout, I took the photograph today and at one point behind my position the cycle path is a painted marked lane on the wide footpath, where I took the picture might be where it joins the newly constructed /bike lane coming off that path. I just remembered somebody wanting a picture of bike lights on here so I took the snap above. Next time I'm there I'll check that out, and take a picture of the dual carriageway crossing further down the road as well, as per your question - now that I've read it correctly ; unless somebody who lives in Liverpool will oblige. The crossing where the bike path swaps sides is at Water Street opposite the Liver Building.
I note from my picture above that cyclists have their own yellow button-box angled, and at a lower level.
There are some of the same type of lights in Wigan, part of a fairly newly constructed scheme around part of the one way system (by Wigan Pier), the Wigan system has one potentially fatal flaw in my opinion, which I'll try and photograph next time I'm there.
From my recent observations, there is a distinct lack of compliance with the rules (?) governing these lanes, cyclists ride through the pedestrian part of this type of crossing, and pedestrians walk down the marked cycle lanes, 'tis the British way ! :roll:
Edit, the new construction at Water Street is already on Google Streetview, images taken in September, it's not quite open in the picture but all the lights, controls and road markings are in place https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.40602 ... 2?hl=en-GB
Bonus in this picture, if you scroll to the right a bit and zoom in, there is a hoofin' great cruise ship in the background tied up at the dock - they are large !
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thirdcrank
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by thirdcrank »

... This is on City Square where Leeds City Council would love to ban private motor vehicles ...
And here's the plan

Armley Gyratory plan critical for Leeds city centre

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-59900167
The first phase work includes:
  • Increasing capacity on the A643, between the railway bridge and the gyratory, increasing from three lanes to five
  • The new Canal Street stop line will increase from two to five lanes, while the A647 approach will be widened, removing the left free flow turn and providing five signal-controlled lanes
(....)

Leeds City Council's leader James Lewis said the plan would improve access to the city centre for cyclists and pedestrians and help improve air quality in the city centre.
For anybody unfamiliar with the area, Armley Gyratory is on the site of a former gas/coke works (and I can remember the days when if a train was going to cross the road from there to the main railway, two men with red flags would stand in the road in case there was any motor traffic. They now plan to increase its capacity to reduce traffic.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I would be surprised if at Colin54's example there were no solid stop line of the sort found at every other (permanent) set of traffic signals.
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freiston
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by freiston »

There is a cycle-only traffic light on the new Coventry Coundon Cycleway not intended for use by pedestrians. I haven't any photos of it but I have used it. The two-way cycle path crosses from one side of the road to the other diagonally. When I used it, the sensors did their job and I crossed over the road on my green light whilst the road traffic lights were on red - I didn't have to stop. Here's a diagram from the consultation document:
Screenshot from 2022-01-15 17-48-30.png
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
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mjr
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by mjr »

freiston wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 5:53pm There is a cycle-only traffic light on the new Coventry Coundon Cycleway not intended for use by pedestrians. I haven't any photos of it but I have used it. The two-way cycle path crosses from one side of the road to the other diagonally. When I used it, the sensors did their job and I crossed over the road on my green light whilst the road traffic lights were on red - I didn't have to stop. Here's a diagram from the consultation document:
Screenshot from 2022-01-15 17-48-30.png
Shouldn't that have been a zebra-parallel crossing, really? It'd both give active travellers priority without having to stop almost ever and walkers a better crossing point.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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freiston
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by freiston »

mjr wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 6:05pm
freiston wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 5:53pm There is a cycle-only traffic light on the new Coventry Coundon Cycleway not intended for use by pedestrians. I haven't any photos of it but I have used it. The two-way cycle path crosses from one side of the road to the other diagonally. When I used it, the sensors did their job and I crossed over the road on my green light whilst the road traffic lights were on red - I didn't have to stop. Here's a diagram from the consultation document:
Screenshot from 2022-01-15 17-48-30.png
Shouldn't that have been a zebra-parallel crossing, really? It'd both give active travellers priority without having to stop almost ever and walkers a better crossing point.
I don't know the whys and wherefores behind that particular decision (or even if it was considered) but there is a Puffin crossing further up (the other side of a roundabout) that has priority over both the cycleway and the road (which is fair and reasonable imho). There never has been a pedestrian crossing at the point where the cycleway switches sides of the road and at that point, my "local knowledge" would suggest that there's not a great demand for one there (even though I used to cross the road there daily as a pedestrian).

The cycleway is 1.7 miles in length, more or less a direct route from the outskirts of the city to the centre, and has schools in the proximity of both ends that generate a lot of motor vehicle traffic. I do know that the cycleway was designed to give priority to the cycleway over roads at junctions and to make the route an easy, safe and "bike-friendly" one to encourage the use of bicycles over motor vehicles. As it is, the light-controlled "switch-over" very much seems to meet that brief, allowing the cyclist to proceed pretty much without a change in direction or speed (no hard 90° turns) - it feels like you are staying in lane rather than crossing a road like a pedestrian.

The cycleway is part of a greater plan to reduce motor-traffic generated pollution and congestion and received its funding because of that. A major arterial road running at about a 20° angle to it towards the city centre is reported as being the most polluted road in the midlands and is very much a cause for concern with the local authority.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
colin54
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Re: cycle only crossings?

Post by colin54 »

I mentioned a Wigan scheme upthread, here are some pictures, starting from by Halfords & McDonalds and going clockwise towards the town centre around a multi lane one-way system( the way my bike is facing) and passing the Asda on your left hand side (problem).
P1160542 (2).JPG
P1160544.JPG
All goes well, the signals allowing you to cross several traffic islands in relative safety, until you are routed off the pavement into a painted bicycle lane on the carriageway lane across the entrance to the Asda supermarket; traffic then comes across you at whatever road speed they are doing at an oblique angle from your right hand side, this has the potential to be a 30MPH left hook.
I wasn't expecting this the first time I went around the scheme until a car came across me at a speed, most unnerving and a potentially fatal bit of road design in my opinion, I think the bike lane may possibly have been there before the current scheme of signals was built.
P1160548 (4).JPG
The footpath has a dropped kerb where it crosses the traffic island at the entrance / exit to the Asda which I'll use in future (walking if necessary, I don't know why they didn't just mark this as a shared use path, with give way/stop road markings - or an extra set of traffic signals at it's intersection with the entrance, the (possibly wider) footpath is already shared use as you get further into Wigan Town Centre.
Here's the Asda entrance on Streetview.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.54159 ... 6?hl=en-GB
Streetview from my first picture, turning right and proceed, following the road around to the right.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.54102 ... 6?hl=en-GB
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