English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

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Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Drumlin is a place name, I think, here but what does it mean over there?
There's a Drumline in County Clare...

... and the reason that I asked whether any words looked wrong in the same way as drumlin is that the first part is of Celtic origin and the second half Germanic. Some people don't like mixed roots.

Jonathan
Mike Sales
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

Jdsk wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 5:30pm
Drumlin is a place name, I think, here but what does it mean over there?
There's a Drumline in County Clare...

... and the reason that I asked whether any words looked wrong in the same way as drumlin is that the first part is of Celtic origin and the second half Germanic. Some people don't like mixed roots.

Jonathan
Wikipedia disagrees.
A drumlin, from the Irish word droimnín ("littlest ridge"), first recorded in 1833, in the classical sense is an elongated hill in the shape of an inverted spoon or half-buried egg[1][2] formed by glacial ice acting on underlying unconsolidated till or ground moraine. Assemblages of drumlins are referred to as fields or swarms;[3][4] they can create a landscape which is often described as having a 'basket of eggs topography'.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drumlin
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:28pm
Jdsk wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 5:30pm ... and the reason that I asked whether any words looked wrong in the same way as drumlin is that the first part is of Celtic origin and the second half Germanic. Some people don't like mixed roots.
Wikipedia disagrees.
A drumlin, from the Irish word droimnín ("littlest ridge"), first recorded in 1833, in the classical sense is an elongated hill in the shape of an inverted spoon or half-buried egg[1][2] formed by glacial ice acting on underlying unconsolidated till or ground moraine. Assemblages of drumlins are referred to as fields or swarms;[3][4] they can create a landscape which is often described as having a 'basket of eggs topography'.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drumlin
According to the OED the -lin suffix (same as -ling) is of Germanic origin.

And Wiktionary agrees:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drumlin

As does Dictionary.com:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/drumlin

Although I'd back the OED even if they didn't.

Jonathan
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

Jdsk wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:33pm
According to the OED the -lin suffix (same as -ling) is of Germanic origin.

And Wiktionary agrees:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drumlin

Jonathan
There is a hill in Gwynedd, in the Carneddau, called Drum. It is a good deal bigger than a drumlin so drumling appeals as a small drum.
In the Skye Cuillin there is a ridge called Druim nan Ramh.
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:45pm
Jdsk wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:33pm According to the OED the -lin suffix (same as -ling) is of Germanic origin.

And Wiktionary agrees:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drumlin
There is a hill in Gwynedd, in the Carneddau, called Drum. It is a good deal bigger than a drumlin so drumling appeals as a small drum.
In the Skye Cuillin there is a ridge called Druim nan Ramh.
Yes, the first part of drumlin is Celtic.
Mike Sales wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:45pm ... so drumling appeals as a small drum.
And that -lin/ -ling suffix is Germanic.

Jonathan
Mike Sales
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

Jdsk wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:49pm
And that -lin/ -ling suffix is Germanic.

Jonathan
That convinces. As duckling for instance.
Did the geomorphological term come from the impressive Co. Down swarm, I wonder?
As meander came from the Turkish river.
How did -ling come to mate with the celtic drum?
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:56pmHow did -ling come to mate with the celtic drum?
I don't know how, but I'll have a look when.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:56pmDid the geomorphological term come from the impressive Co. Down swarm, I wonder?
OED: "Originally applied to landforms in Ireland.".
And first recorded use is 1812.

Jonathan
Cowsham
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Cowsham »

meander must be a bit confusing for someone learning our language -- they may say it mean-der or me-and-er ( shouldn't it be her and me ) instead of me-an-der


Makes you think it should be meeander
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Audax67 »

Cowsham wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 2:24pm meander must be a bit confusing for someone learning our language -- they may say it mean-der or me-and-er ( shouldn't it be her and me ) instead of me-an-der


Makes you think it should be meeander
And how would a learner cope with paradigm if nobody told them?
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661-Pete
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by 661-Pete »

We could go on for pages about English's non-phonetic structure: how else could we have words like bough, cough, dough, rough - none of which rhyme?

At least it comes as a relief, when trying to learn a foreign language, to find that it is phonetic: once you see a word you know exactly how it's pronounced. Like Spanish (although, trying to decipher a native Spanish-speaker talking rapidly, I reckon some of the preciseness gets dropped...).

It came as a surprise to me when my son (who speaks some Russian) told me that Russian - for all the precision embodied in the Cyrillic alphabet - is not quite a phonetic language.
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Mike Sales
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

Jdsk wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 12:44pm
Mike Sales wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 6:56pmDid the geomorphological term come from the impressive Co. Down swarm, I wonder?
OED: "Originally applied to landforms in Ireland.".
And first recorded use is 1812.

Jonathan
Thanks. It seems that my guess was correct.
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Thrice has just popped up in another thread.

As Wiktionary puts it:

Unlike once and twice, thrice is somewhat dated in American and British usage, sometimes used for a comical or intentionally archaic effect...
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thrice

Jonathan
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