The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 10593
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by 661-Pete »

Hmmm... touchy topic, this. I'm not about to deprecate any form of religion - just so long as it's not compulsory religion. Been there...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by pwa »

As someone who was brought up RC but left it behind, my impression of this Pope is that he is the best there has been in my lifetime. He isn't perfect but he has a strong social conscience and he has been edging the Vatican towards a more liberal position in some areas, held back by opposition from within. He still gets some things wrong though, and if I met him while I was out exercising my whippet on a nearby beach and told me I was wrong to be getting joy from watching her go, I'd tell him to mind his own business. That isn't likely to happen though. I don't think I've seen a cardinal down there, never mind a pope.

(I have a RC funeral to attend next week, and I'm anticipating the claustrophobic feeling I used to get when immersed in the smell of incense and farts.)
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Tangled Metal »

I went to Xmas Mass at my grans church a few times. The last time I felt very ill and had to rush out. I just got outside before greying out, stage before blacking out where you've got no vision but you hear everything strongly and you're likely to be submitting to gravity.

I took that as a sign. Churches weren't for me. Possibly it was mythical being telling me to repent and believe again. I had just been converted to atheism by a devout lay preacher teacher and his stupid explanations why God exists.
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 11536
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by al_yrpal »

661-Pete wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 10:55pm Hmmm... touchy topic, this. I'm not about to deprecate any form of religion - just so long as it's not compulsory religion. Been there...
Afraid you might upset some supreme being and end up on a toasting fork eh? :lol:

Personally I tolerate religious folks and their views and wont actually join the Humanists lead by Alice Roberts because of their, to me, anti religious activities.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Tangled Metal »

Don't religious types often have anti humanist activities? Hmm?!

Imagine a religious type saying he tolerated humanists but won't join the religious led by the pope because of they're anti humanist activities? Anyone strongly believing in one thing or against one thing will have activities against the other I reckon.
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 11536
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by al_yrpal »

The Humanists oppose faith schools and Bishops in the Lords. Its true that all faiths or non faiths are opposed to certain things. All I am saying is that I dont feel strongly enough to actively promote their causes. In my view they should put all their effort into debunking religious claptrap and spreading the message of Humanist brotherly love and tolerance.

Lifes too short...

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Tangled Metal »

That is activities against religion as much as religion has activities against humanists. Find Jesus becomes drop your mythical all powerful being you don't need it. All evangelical of sorts just for and against religion.
Jdsk
Posts: 24631
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Jdsk »

Following an interesting natural experiment in Germany we now have some decent data on the effects of religious education. Hot off the press.

"Can Schools Change Religious Attitudes? Evidence from German State Reforms of Compulsory Religious Education":
https://www.cesifo.org/DocDL/cesifo1_wp9504.pdf

Abstract, in full:

We study whether compulsory religious education in schools affects students’ religiosity as adults. We exploit the staggered termination of compulsory religious education across German states in models with state and cohort fixed effects. Using three different datasets, we find that abolishing compulsory religious education significantly reduced religiosity of affected students in adulthood. It also reduced the religious actions of personal prayer, church-going, and church membership. Beyond religious attitudes, the reform led to more equalized gender roles, fewer marriages and children, and higher labor-market participation and earnings. The reform did not affect ethical and political values or non-religious school outcomes.

Jonathan
User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 10593
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by 661-Pete »

al_yrpal wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 7:13am Afraid you might upset some supreme being and end up on a toasting fork eh? :lol:
I'm assuming, from the presence of the smiley, the flippancy in your above remark! :lol: As I've probably said before, I'm an atheist so none of this 'supreme being' mantra applies to me. The risk is of upsetting and aggravating fellow-humans - that's all.

What I will say, re 'compulsory religion', is that I see faith schools as a form of that. Pupils have to undergo 'Religious Instruction' as it was called in my day (now, I think, it's the more moderate 'RE'). The compulsory 'act of worship' in schools also comes into that category, as I well remember. It is quite in order for the Humanists to campaign against these practices - as well as against solely religious represenation (i.e. bishops) in the Legislature.

For me, personally, it was the pressure from my father to conform to the Judaism I was brought up in. This led to inner conflicts which it took me a long time to shake off, even after my father's death. In fact, it was only after my marriage (to a non-Jew) that I finally said farewell to religion.

As to what happens when the Grim Reaper shows up: I've put in my Will that it has to be a non-religious or Humanist, if any, send-off.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Psamathe
Posts: 17647
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Psamathe »

pwa wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 4:38am ...He still gets some things wrong though,....
I thought that was impossible on matters of faith or morals? Papal infallibility. So when he says wrong to have no or one child or wrong to have a pet then those are issues or morals so papal infallibility should apply and he must be right.

Ian
User avatar
Hellhound
Posts: 756
Joined: 19 May 2021, 7:39am

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Hellhound »

I've always believed Religion to be a crutch for the weaker minded. Something to hang on to and to make things better.A bit like addiction.
We've moved on from the fire and brimstone and fear of 'insert your god here',well some of us have.
I don't mind religious people so long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to preach to me.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Tangled Metal »

Weaker minded? Bear in mind there's a form of devotion in humanism and atheism too. Look at Dawkins, he's as looney as any fire and brimstone preacher if you ask me. Intelligent but no different to his opposite in religion.

If you ask me the real weaker minded is the true believer no matter what it is. They see things that aren't there. Whether it's the idea all in religion is wrong and perhaps even evil. Or the idea that God and faith is everything. They all see what they want to see.

Personally there's good in religion and atheism. It's usually not at the extremist ends like. Dawkins and Taliban. Or in those who believe one side is the weaker minded.

Read Alain de Boton's book on religion for atheists. Boring read but some good points all good atheists and humanists should read. Might strengthen your minds a bit. 😆
Jdsk
Posts: 24631
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Jdsk »

Tangled Metal wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 1:34pmLook at Dawkins, he's as looney as any fire and brimstone preacher if you ask me.
Please could you give an example of Dawkins doing what you describe.

Thanks

Jonathan
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 11536
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by al_yrpal »

Tangled Metal wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 7:38am Don't religious types often have anti humanist activities? Hmm?!

Imagine a religious type saying he tolerated humanists but won't join the religious led by the pope because of they're anti humanist activities? Anyone strongly believing in one thing or against one thing will have activities against the other I reckon.
My take is "am I bovered....no!" Lennon was correct....Now wheres my wheels?

Al :lol:
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by [XAP]Bob »

reohn2 wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 3:16pm
Jdsk wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 2:02pm
briansnail wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 1:58pmHe of course Heads the Catholic church which does good works worldwide and is universally respected (as with other major religions).
Not by me, therefore not universally.

Jonathan
Nor me,and certainly not "universally"
This corrupt institution defends it's official instruction not to use condoms as a means of contraception or protection against AIDS as being against "God's will".
It's been a very long time since that was the case...

Your absolute faith in something else is noted, but that absolute faith has exactly the same basis as any other faith... it's a faith.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Post Reply