Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Jdsk
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Re: Mike van Earp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by Jdsk »

Steve X wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 6:22pm
Jdsk wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 9:14am
Steve X wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 8:11am I have searched the forum for the name Mike van Earp and got no hits..
According to the article his name is van Erp.

As original poster you can edit the Subject of the thread. This will probably help others to find it in the future.

He's usually referred to as Cycling Mikey or CyclingMikey.
search.php?keywords=%22cycling+mikey%22 ... ngmikey%22
Thank you, someone appears to have done it for me, but I did not know that was possible.
If it wasn't you that will have been a helpful Moderator.

: - )

Jonathan
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simonineaston
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by simonineaston »

Having just read about the geezer, I have to say Well Done Him! As far as I can tell, from direct observation, and casual reading of newspapers / online resources, such as this very forum, the propensity for the average driver to cut corners, ignore the Highway Code and drive in a manner that endangers other road users is sharply on the increase and shows no sign whatsover of slowing down.
I've long since given up The Commute, but I regularly used to see drivers using their phones for all sorts including watching videos (much to my amazement), with local tradesmen and vans-drivers in particular, pretty much driving with their phones permanently in their hands!!
So, it's official - I'm now a Grumpy Old Man... but one without a Hero.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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TrevA
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by TrevA »

It’s nice to put a face to the voice. I’ve seen quite a few of his videos. One of the most famous ones being the 2 entitled doctors in a Volvo, who spend 5 minutes arguing with him, and still end up having to reverse back into the traffic queue. Apparently, the lady doctor has now become a laughing stock amongst her colleagues for being so self righteous.

https://youtu.be/tMckoqLbCs8

Fair play to Mikey for doing what he does, I think he must spend a fair amount of time waiting around, filming culprits, reporting them and then uploading the videos to YouTube. He always waits for police proceedings to conclude before he uploads the video to YouTube, which can be more than a year after the incident took place.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
thirdcrank
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by thirdcrank »

In other news, I see the case against Frank Lampard is reported to be at court on 17 January so one to look out for. Is there a loophole in Cycling Mikey's evidence?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/frank-lampard ... 27185.html
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simonineaston
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by simonineaston »

Let's put it another way - if there were Mike van Erp clones around in every city & town, then drivers would suddenly start behaving better. Perhaps we as a society could maybe pay them and provide them with a uniform - and give them training and equipment...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Steve X
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by Steve X »

simonineaston wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 7:28pm Let's put it another way - if there were Mike van Erp clones around in every city & town, then drivers would suddenly start behaving better. Perhaps we as a society could maybe pay them and provide them with a uniform - and give them training and equipment...
Maybe as citizens of a society we could take a more active role, rather than abdicating responsibility.
Mike Sales
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by Mike Sales »

simonineaston wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 7:28pm Let's put it another way - if there were Mike van Erp clones around in every city & town, then drivers would suddenly start behaving better. Perhaps we as a society could maybe pay them and provide them with a uniform - and give them training and equipment...
We could call them police.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
thirdcrank
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by thirdcrank »

Mike Sales wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 9:57am
simonineaston wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 7:28pm Let's put it another way - if there were Mike van Erp clones around in every city & town, then drivers would suddenly start behaving better. Perhaps we as a society could maybe pay them and provide them with a uniform - and give them training and equipment...
We could call them police.
Apart from the absence of the then uninvented camcorder, they used to exist and do just this type of enforcement. Externally imposed changes in priorities led to their demise.
Jdsk
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 7:23pm In other news, I see the case against Frank Lampard is reported to be at court on 17 January so one to look out for. Is there a loophole in Cycling Mikey's evidence?
Charge will not be pursued.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ar-dropped

The video:
https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/preview/ ... 339626.mp4

Jonathan
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by Bonefishblues »

In other news, according to his Twitter account he was assaulted the other day, but was exultant later that evening when he confirmed he had it on camera.
thirdcrank
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by thirdcrank »

Is there a loophole in Cycling Mikey's evidence?
Cycling Mikey in the Grauniad:-
I accept that it was a little borderline for what the law requires, but the current mobile phone laws are a bit of a farce which is why they are about to be changed to make it harder to drive while using a phone.
thirdcrank
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by thirdcrank »

Before this thread becomes a vague memory, I'll note that I was surprised that the "not using a phone as a phone" defence was still available ie the loophole had not been closed. It's now around a dozen years since joker Jimmy Carr was found to have no case to answer after a broadly similar incident

https://web.archive.org/web/20091019060 ... 23e80.html

This must mean that in most cases, filming the alleged offence through a car window is not enough on its own to prove a charge. There is, of course, always the possibility that somebody will advance this defence and something like phone records will emerge later, when it would mean porridge for perverting justice.
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TrevA
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by TrevA »

thirdcrank wrote: 31 Jan 2022, 1:34pm Before this thread becomes a vague memory, I'll note that I was surprised that the "not using a phone as a phone" defence was still available ie the loophole had not been closed. It's now around a dozen years since joker Jimmy Carr was found to have no case to answer after a broadly similar incident

https://web.archive.org/web/20091019060 ... 23e80.html

This must mean that in most cases, filming the alleged offence through a car window is not enough on its own to prove a charge. There is, of course, always the possibility that somebody will advance this defence and something like phone records will emerge later, when it would mean porridge for perverting justice.
I think this is why Mike often films for quite a while in his videos, zooming in on the screen to prove that they are on the internet/using Facebook/WhatsApp/Instagram, etc.

The problem with the Lampard case, was that it was only a fleeting glimpse, though surely with phone on one hand and coffee in the other he was not in full control of the vehicle.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
Stevek76
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by Stevek76 »

The closure of said loophole is supposed to have already happened and there is some legislation in the works. Unfortunately, much like sorting out moving traffic offences for non London English councils, it is rather later than first promised.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?

Post by thirdcrank »

he was not in full control of the vehicle.
I do get that, but that's not the offence which was charged.

The offence of not being in control of the vehicle is a "con & use" offence which adequately deals with mobile phones
Driver's control

104. No person shall drive or cause or permit any other person to drive, a motor vehicle on a road if he is in such a position that he cannot have proper control of the vehicle or have a full view of the road and traffic ahead.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/198 ... n/104/made

IIRC, road safety campaigners pressed for the creation of a specific mobile phone offence - in spite of lawyers' warnings - and this was the result
Amendment of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
2. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986(1) are amended by inserting after regulation 109—

“Mobile telephones
110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4),
at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.

(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.

(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention—

(a)he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b)he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c)it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).
(6) For the purposes of this regulation—

(a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;
(b)a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);
(c)“interactive communication function” includes the following:
(i)sending or receiving oral or written messages;
(ii)sending or receiving facsimile documents;
(iii)sending or receiving still or moving images; and
(iv)providing access to the internet;
(d)“two-way radio” means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted—
(i)for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and
(ii)to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and
(e)“wireless telegraphy” has the same meaning as in section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949(2).”
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/200 ... ion/2/made

You don't need to be the Lord Chief Justice to see that the specific mobile phone offence has a lot of ... er ... loopholes

The CPS advice on this is equally detailed but this is the important bit in this context
For the purposes of section 41D and Regulation 110 the “use” must be for an interactive communication function (Baretto paragraph 37.) The legislation does not prohibit all uses of mobile telephones or other devices, just calls or other interactive communications if the phone or device is held at some stage during that process (Baretto paragraph 47.)(My bold)
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/r ... ile-phones
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