Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Carlton green
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by Carlton green »

Plus one on what Cycle Tramp said above.

Are touring bikes old fashioned and if so then so what? Think about where you are going to be and how you will manage with unexpected damage and unexpected failures - they do happen. Folk have toured all over the world on old fashioned bikes ... if it (the existing and proven design) ain’t broke then don’t fix it.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
PH
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by PH »

cycle tramp wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 6:57pm If anyone has any advice for you, then that's fine, but if it's not built on their own experience or from their own failures, then that's not really advice - that's just passing the time of day.
Yes, but people's experiences have been different so it's hardly surprising their advice is as well, it doesn't make any part of it more relevant than another.
For the OP, they don't have any experience to rely on, so they can flip a coin, or find someone they think is likely to have had the same experience they're hoping for, who has ideas they like the sound of, and follow what they've done.
Best advice IMO is to try and put the bike into perspective, read plenty of peoples experiences and it soon becomes clear that the bike hasn't been the determining factor. People have travelled the World on £500 and £5,000 bikes, have had both break, stolen, crashed and it still hasn't been the outstanding experience of the trip.
You have to have this, you shouldn't have that, X is better than Y, the latest tech Vs the oldest standard, none of it matters anything like as much as some would have us believe. Any bike built as a touring bike, and a good few that aren't, will be more than adequate, If you don't have your own experience to rely on, you may as well base your choice on the frame colour.
rareposter
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by rareposter »

Carlton green wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 9:35am Plus one on what Cycle Tramp said above.

Are touring bikes old fashioned and if so then so what? Think about where you are going to be and how you will manage with unexpected damage and unexpected failures - they do happen. Folk have toured all over the world on old fashioned bikes ... if it (the existing and proven design) ain’t broke then don’t fix it.
I'd partly agree with that - wherever you're going (whether on a bike or in a vehicle), there's an element of knowing / understanding what spares may or may not be available either ad-hoc or hanging around waiting for an international courier to deliver and then a balancing act of working out what "might" break, what spares you can reasonably carry and what you might have to beg / borrow / buy / bodge out on the road. Spokes, brake pads, cables, mech hanger are all light / cheap / easy things to carry. Rear mech, spare tyre - well, less easy but do-able and I'd probably consider it on a very long tour in remote places. Spare hub or rim - absolutely no chance I'd carry that and also zero chance I'd be equipped to change things like that roadside.

Part of that balancing act is (for example) the thought process that while "X" is simple, cheap, reasonably easy to repair, "Y" is more complex but less likely to break. So:
V-brakes vs hydro discs
Derailleur vs Rohloff
Chain vs belt drive
even frame materials: steel vs titanium
??

Ultimately though, as mentioned, people have toured everything from their local neighbourhood to the entire world on more or less every type of bike going - some are more suited to it than others obviously but it's surprising how adaptable and tough bikes can be.
st599_uk
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by st599_uk »

I think the OP needs to speak to people who've actually toured in Africa - most cyclists may know how to get a nice frame for riding in Europe, but Africa's different. And more importantly, stop dreaming of going to Africa and go to Africa. It's one of the greatest places on Earth to travel.

If you're somewhere like Zambia, Zimbabwe or Botswana, they (or the Chinese) have invested heavily in infrastructure for bikes. Many main roads have protected cycle lanes (better than the UK). They've been handing out bikes from global charities to girls, healthcare workers etc. because keeping females in education allows better outcomes for families and communities. But this means that there have been a large number of bike garages springing up in towns all designed to look after bikes running on 26" rims with beefy spokes and rim or coaster brakes.

You could carry a load of spares, but I'd go for steel as you'll be able to find a welder, and a brake and wheel type you can find spares for.
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kylecycler
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by kylecycler »

The reason Oxford Bike Works - and Thorn (SJS Cycles) - have persisted with rim brakes is that a tapered steel rim brake fork is quite a lot more compliant than a disc brake fork - a disc brake fork has to be built stiffer to withstand the forces imposed by the brake otherwise it could collapse. So if you prefer a harsher ride to a cushier ride on your round-the-world trip, go ahead and use a disc braked bike. (In recent years Spa Cycles has introduced framesets with disc brakes but still recognises the benefits of rim brakes and hasn't abandoned them by any means.)

The caveat concerning ride quality is that if you go with wider tyres - 50 mm or wider still - you can run them at low enough pressures without sacrificing rolling resistance such that the tyres' suspension effect tends to outweigh the fork's, so then a disc fork's relative lack of compliance matters far less.
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by Vorpal »

One of the things no one seems to have mentioned here is wheel base length.

My tourer has longer chain stays & a longer wheel base than my other bikes.

This does two things for me: 1) provides plenty of room for baggage in a good location for weight distribution and 2) provides better stability on a loaded bicycle

I have toured on a late 70s road bike, an MTB based hybrid, and my tourer. With both the road bike, and the hybrid, I had to be quite careful with load placement. If I put the weight too far forward on the rear rack, I'd kick the panniers. If it put it too far back, it didn't ride as well. That could be somewhat counteracted by putting some weight on the front, but it didn't have front forks designed for that. With experimentation, I could carry everything & with acceptable handling, but never as good as on my tourer.

TBH, the choice of wheel size, brake type, etc. is personal choice. How do you weigh availability of parts or need to carry bits against convenience, cost, etc. ?

I haven't toured in Africa, so I cannot offer any advice with regard to that. I wouldn't like to carry lots of parts with me.

People can and do tour on absolutely any type of bike, and I wouldn't criticise someone's choice.

But if I were buying a new bike for an expedition tour, I would buy a bike designed for expedition touring.
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Low gears and a very strong rear wheel essential.

Everything else personal preference IMO.

He says, having not done a long tour for decades :-)
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al_yrpal
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by al_yrpal »

In my experience an important basic essential requirement is steel with lateral frame stiffness coupled with a bit of vertical springyness for comfort. I would choose conventional deralieur gearing with a treble clanger, 27" extra spoked wheels, wide smooth tyres and discs. My choice is guided by the various touring bikes I have owned and toured on.
I have a steel Salsa Vaya and it doesnt have sufficient lateral stiffness.

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simonhill
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by simonhill »

Vorpal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 11:51am
But if I were buying a new bike for an expedition tour, I would buy a bike designed for expedition touring.
What a novel idea.
rareposter
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by rareposter »

simonhill wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 12:47pm
Vorpal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 11:51am
But if I were buying a new bike for an expedition tour, I would buy a bike designed for expedition touring.
What a novel idea.
Well yes, but this thread has come about because the OP got fitted out for an expedition bike (an Oxford Bike Works), there's a thread here on it: viewtopic.php?t=149057

Said OP is now having a crisis of confidence over whether the OBW is in fact the right / best expedition bike and as this thread and several others have shown, there are many ways to build an "expedition bike" depending on where you're going, when, for how long, what you need / want to carry, what you can afford, the terrain you plan on riding, your views on "technology" (be that frame material, components and/or kit) and your experience / fitness levels.
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kylecycler
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by kylecycler »

simonhill wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 12:47pm
Vorpal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 11:51am
But if I were buying a new bike for an expedition tour, I would buy a bike designed for expedition touring.
What a novel idea.
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CJ
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by CJ »

To address the subject of this thread: NO, that's a silly question, touring bikes are not a fashion item. The demands of touring are unchanging and the designs of touring bicycles change only so as to make the best of whatever parts and materials can be gleaned from those less consistent uses of bicycles that are subject to the fickle tides of fashion.

And the latest trends only go to show that traditional British tourists were right all along.

Finally the 'roadie' has come to his senses, realised that he does NOT ride on pristine main-road quality tarmac, freshly laid for a visit by the Tour de France, but on whatever coarse-grained, worn, patched and potholed surface his cash-strapped country council can afford to maintain on the back-roads and country lanes he is literally driven onto by the increasing volume and speed of main-road traffic. And on those surfaces, something like a 32mm tyre really does roll better than the 25 or even 23mm rubber he's been running these past 50 years!

Even the Pro Tours (perhaps to connect with the everyday cycling experience of fans, or avoid the increasing costs of closing increasingly busy roads) aren't including so many of the classic main road climbs, but routing along more of the narrower and steeper minor roads used by the rest of us. They nowadays even use some of the gravel roads once loved only by rough-stuff tourists! And surprise, surprise, the pros who've fitted and learned to spin lower gears up those steeper gradients, tend to do better!

Hey Mr mountain-biker and your wheel sizes: tourists told you that bigger rolls better especially on soft and rough surfaces. Welcome to 700C - a pity you have to confuse things by calling it 29". As for so-called 27.5": fat 650B tyres, imported from France, were used already by British rough-stuffers and MTB pioneers such as Cleland in the 70s and 80s, before the term had been coined. How come it took you so long to realise this was optimum?

As for 'bikepacking', I'm old enough to remember going on tour with just a saddlebag and recall a photograph of one of the CTC's founder members with all of his cycle-camping gear (including a silk tent) stowed about his person!

But touring bikes are not one type, they naturally vary enormously, according to the nature of the tour and the preference of the rider. Twas ever thus.
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djb
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by djb »

rareposter wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 1:46pm
Well yes, but this thread has come about because the OP got fitted out for an expedition bike (an Oxford Bike Works), there's a thread here on it: viewtopic.php?t=149057

Said OP is now having a crisis of confidence over whether the OBW is in fact the right / best expedition bike and as this thread and several others have shown, there are many ways to build an "expedition bike" depending on where you're going, when, for how long, what you need / want to carry, what you can afford, the terrain you plan on riding, your views on "technology" (be that frame material, components and/or kit) and your experience / fitness levels.
Thanks for reminder, I mostly can't keep track of user names and who wrote what.
Yes, a lot of uncertainty and questioning.

My views on disc brakes have certainly changed over the years, with my personal experience over the last 5 years or so giving me great confidence and appreciation using them. I've toured in rather mountainy areas and changed my front pads out at 6000kms but quite possibly have gotten 10,000 kms out of them. Yes i was predominantly riding on paved roads and with little rain, so minimum gritty wearing conditions, so take my experience with a big grain of salt.
Also, one of my riding partners went through pads in less than 2000kms, so how you brake and rider+bike weight play a huge part.

CSS rims from all accounts are amazing, so if able to find them, they certainly would be an option. Special pads required, but are tiny and easy to take multiples with you.

Bigger tires possibility would seem the most useful in riding in the places this fellow says he wants to go to, and being able to have fenders as well with no toe or mud buildup tolerances.

I realize all these topics are mostly for talking, we all like blah blahing about touring stuff, and that's ok, its fun.
I hope this fellow does go touring, we only have one life as far as I know.
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matt2matt2002
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by matt2matt2002 »

but Africa's different. And more importantly, stop dreaming of going to Africa and go to Africa. It's one of the greatest places on Earth to travel.
Quite agree. I've only been to Morocco and Ethiopia.
Using a steel Thorn Raven with a Rohloff gave me great confidence. 26" non disc wheels; no problems.
Last thing I needed was technical worries so far from home.
2017 Ethiopia.5 weeks.
2018 Marrakech 2 weeks.
2023 Thailand 8 weeks.
Always on a Thorn Raven/Rohloff hub.
cycle tramp
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Re: Are touring bikes old fashioned?

Post by cycle tramp »

20220122_120757.jpg
Admittedly larger tyres may roll faster and 27.5 may look more sexy... but for shear versatility 26 will always be around...

Above is my bike with 26 inch wheels, 2 inch wide tyres and full mudguards, carrying 10kg of chicken feed in the front paniers, my dinner (carried in my new bucket) and 9 kg of assorted stuff (more chicken feed, salt lick for the horse and some new tools) carried on the rear rack without any problems to the wheels...

...and if i get bored I can always change the tyres to 1.25 inch slicks for the summer time..

I really must get the sqr block sorted...
Last edited by cycle tramp on 22 Jan 2022, 12:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
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