A 50Mw trial plant is being built near Manchester. This will liquify compressed air for use when demand is high. Commissioning due next year.
https://highviewpower.com/plants/
A 50Mw trial plant is being built near Manchester. This will liquify compressed air for use when demand is high. Commissioning due next year.
This seems an idea worth exploring.
It's massively inefficient. But still maybe worthwhile, for the reasons you state.francovendee wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 8:29amThis seems an idea worth exploring.
If it works then it's surely a better solution than hooking up batteries to the grid?
If the energy used is surplus then any losses are immaterial.
AFAICT there's little or no prospect of further viable pumped storage in the UK - simply no viable sites. I think we get some via the Norway interconnector - topology obviously favours Norway...al_yrpal wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 9:42am It maybe inefficient but well worthwhile if it captures wasted electrical ecopower at night as we do right now. Pumped water storage is another possibility. These technologies focus attention on the problem of instantaneous electrical power wastage and like all such things large scale examples will provoke others into experimenting and developing better solutions.
Al
Scotland is still in the UK and has at least 2 pumped storage facilities. One at Cruachan on Loch Awe and another on Loch Ness.661-Pete wrote: ↑3 Dec 2016, 7:10pm There is another technology - pumped-storage hydroelectricity - which might offer a solution to the 'windless/sunless days' problem. I don't know enough about the subject to expand on this. The downside is that such a system requires a hilly or mountainous location, so is likely to be constructed in areas of natural beauty where it could be deemed an eyesore. But a non-polluting eyesore, at that!
A pity that there is only one such facility in the UK (Dinorweg). Other countries have more.
Britain's first was the Stwlan/Ffestiniog system built in 1963, then there another one under construction at Coire Glas/Loch Lochy.ambodach wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 8:29pmScotland is still in the UK and has at least 2 pumped storage facilities. One at Cruachan on Loch Awe and another on Loch Ness.661-Pete wrote: ↑3 Dec 2016, 7:10pm There is another technology - pumped-storage hydroelectricity - which might offer a solution to the 'windless/sunless days' problem. I don't know enough about the subject to expand on this. The downside is that such a system requires a hilly or mountainous location, so is likely to be constructed in areas of natural beauty where it could be deemed an eyesore. But a non-polluting eyesore, at that!
A pity that there is only one such facility in the UK (Dinorweg). Other countries have more.
Well it's an interesting thread.roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 8:47amIt's massively inefficient. But still maybe worthwhile, for the reasons you state.francovendee wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 8:29amThis seems an idea worth exploring.
If it works then it's surely a better solution than hooking up batteries to the grid?
If the energy used is surplus then any losses are immaterial.
Most (virtually all in the UK AIUI) grid scale batteries aren't used for true storage, but for ultra short timescale load balancing, just a few seconds whilst other power sources are wound up, because you can turn them on almost instantly. It's notable that battery storage is always quoted in impressive output (MW) terms rather than storage (MWhr).
Gas power is very low capital, so using gas to fill in on low wind days makes a lot of sense - it adds relatively little overall to carbon emissions but reduces a lot the total scale of wind power and associated transmission needed to power the whole country.
I haven't read Private Eye for some time - I take your point - the EDF system has been bedevilled by problems.thirdcrank wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022, 10:38am I depend on Old Sparky in Private Eye for guidance about future energy supply and the point about nuclear seems to be that the EDF system is touted as proven technology but it isn't.
Yes. Lots of possibilities out there.roubaixtuesday wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 10:41amAFAICT there's little or no prospect of further viable pumped storage in the UK - simply no viable sites. I think we get some via the Norway interconnector - topology obviously favours Norway...al_yrpal wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 9:42am It maybe inefficient but well worthwhile if it captures wasted electrical ecopower at night as we do right now. Pumped water storage is another possibility. These technologies focus attention on the problem of instantaneous electrical power wastage and like all such things large scale examples will provoke others into experimenting and developing better solutions.
Car batteries is the big potential for storage/ load balancing. Would be interesting to compare the total storage capacity if the UK car fleet was fully electrified* vs say Dinorwig**
*20 million vehicles at 60kwh battery capacity = 1200 GWhr
** 9 GWhr https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
re emboldened - surely this is exactly what you want storage systems to do?rjb wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022, 12:26pm One of the main issues with nuclear generation is their inability to shift load on demand. Nuclear fission has an inherrant problem with the decay products from fission building up and poisoning the reactor if the load is dropped. At worst this can build up to the point where the reactor shuts itself down. Hence nuclear generation was always known as base load with flexible generation ie fossil fuelled used to meet the peaks and troughs. Hence we need a balance of generation to cope with demand. At present battery storage is one solution but operators use this as a commercial opportunity to maximise their profit, topping up when prices are low and selling when prices are high.
I've been banging on about this for years. The country's strategic assets should never have been sold off, but kept in public ownership.