Self-driving car users should have immunity from offences

[Jdsk]

"But Officer, I had just handed control back to the computer while I made a phone call and watched a movie.....it was the car that killed the child."

That's an example of why the law needs to be ready for these machines. And this report is an attempt at doing that.

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

"But Officer, I had just handed control back to the computer while I made a phone call and watched a movie.....it was the car that killed the child."

I'm not going to get involved in speculation but I can't see much difference there from what happens now. First, our criminal law protects the right of a defendant to trot out any defence - real or specious - that they choose if they are involved in a crash. Then, let's remember the best circumstances would be a version of "no crashes and nobody maimed, nothing to laugh at at all." Prevention is better than any amount of punishment or compo.

ie Can completely autonomous vehicles be safer than human drivers? The bar isn't set very high.

[Jdsk]

ie Can completely autonomous vehicles be safer than human drivers? The bar isn't set very high.

And this report has clear recommendations on data recording and storage and notification of the regulator.

3.23
The in-use regulator will be under a statutory duty is to measure the safety of automated driving against the Secretary of State’s safety standard. To this end, it will collect relevant data about both automated and conventional driving, analyse this data and publish its findings. The in-use regulator will have a responsibility to consider all risks associated with automated driving, including problems that might occur following take over, or if users wrongly think that the ADS is engaged while it is not.

Jonathan

PS: On a different but related point I'd like to have more confidence in the quality of evidence that will lead to original licensing. But this report is good on the process that will be needed, Section 3.1.

[Pete Owens]

This will obviously be thae case - and a total non-story.

A user of a self driving car is a passenger not the driver so it would make as much sense to prosecute them as it would to prosecute someone sitting on the back seat of a bus if it broke a speed limit.

[Jdsk]

The report from the Law Commission is a very interesting and important story.

And, as it clearly advises, the "user in charge" should be in a very different situation from a passenger: Chapter 8.

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

But the learned friends have the knack of explaining things in a lot more words.

[Mick F]

Can a self-driving car have no-one in?
Can you program it to go by itself?
Could it be sent to an address to pick up a child and then take him/her to school?

[Jdsk]

Can a self-driving car have no-one in?
Can you program it to go by itself?
Could it be sent to an address to pick up a child and then take him/her to school?

At the technological level? Yes.

Are developers producing them? Yes.

Some production Teslas have a Summon mode that will bring them to your door or across a car park.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/mode ... 17AEF.html
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/mode ... D5DED.html

There's a project in Milton Keynes using vehicles with remote human control: "Fetch"
https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/peo ... th-3514473

I'll check whether any of this was in scope for the Law Commission.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Can a self-driving car have no-one in?
Can you program it to go by itself?
Could it be sent to an address to pick up a child and then take him/her to school?

At the technological level? Yes.

Are developers producing them? Yes.

Some production Teslas have a Summon mode that will bring them to your door or across a car park.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/mode ... 17AEF.html
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/mode ... D5DED.html

There's a project in Milton Keynes using vehicles with remote human control: "Fetch"
https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/peo ... th-3514473

I'll check whether any of this was in scope for the Law Commission.

The Law Commission used the SAE J3016 "Levels of Driving Automation". Levels 4 and 5 support that degree of self-driving.

In the report this would come under "No User in Charge"/ "NUIC": see Chapter 9.

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

If there was going to be anything, I'd be thinking in the area of child neglect, the problem being what happens to unaccompanied children in the case of something like a puncture. Bearing in mind that very broadly speaking child neglect includes psychological as well as physical harm, being stuck in an immobilised car might be an example. A child cannot necessarily safely leave a car and complete a journey alone. Obviously, it would be a case of "it all depends," as a fifteen year old on a short, walkable trip is isn't in the same boat (?) as a six year old going from Leeds to Manchester

[axel_knutt]

The Germans have been working on this for the last 5 years already. These are reputedly the world's first draft ethical standards for self-driving cars from June 2017. They seem a lot more thoughtful and comprehensive than anything I've heard elsewhere, but they still have more questions than answers.

[GideonReade]

I imagine the first ones with no drivers at will be goods vehicles, not passenger carriers.

After that, which will either work out or not, it can feed out to other applications. Starting with <Insert your priority list here>.

[ratherbeintobago]

I imagine the first ones with no drivers at will be goods vehicles, not passenger carriers.

After that, which will either work out or not, it can feed out to other applications. Starting with <Insert your priority list here>.

The big money is e.g. Uber trying to come up with self-driving minicabs though.

[Jdsk]

I imagine the first ones with no drivers at will be goods vehicles, not passenger carriers.

After that, which will either work out or not, it can feed out to other applications. Starting with <Insert your priority list here>.

I don't know. Are there any studies out there on this?

I hope that fully autonomous vehicles will have a synergistic relationship with decreased personal ownership of cars. Arriving at your door when needed and going away afterwards could make this a lot more attractive.

Jonathan

[GideonReade]

I imagine the first ones with no drivers at will be goods vehicles, not passenger carriers.

After that, which will either work out or not, it can feed out to other applications. Starting with <Insert your priority list here>.

The big money is e.g. Uber trying to come up with self-driving minicabs though.

Actually you have a point. Although Amazon probably counts as big money too, Uber has the advantage that their cargo is self-loading.