Carradice Sold

[slowster]

I suspect they will do what Selle Royal have done to Brooks, pricing them so high that they are almost Veblen goods.

I doubt that is the new owners' plan. Not only are Acquapac themselves already selling Carradice's existing non-cycling specific products for substantially less than Carradice itself, I think there would be major difficulties taking Carradice's cotton duck products more upmarket.

If you take the Carradice Brompton Bags, it's certainly possible to envisage that the bags could be improved with a more sophisticated design and better quality materials, but such a product already exists, the Brompton Game Bag, which is made by Chapman, a specialist high quality bag manufacturer in Cumbria (compare the photographs below).

I think that it would be much more difficult to produce a premium version of the saddlebags, due to the inherently unstructured nature of the bags. I doubt people would be willing to pay more for bags which have little aesthetic appeal due to their particular shape and soft/non-rigid structure. If they significantly increased the price of the current products, I suspect they would lose too many sales.

That said, I think there is scope to improve some of the products. I've modified my Super C Rackbag with a quick detach to replace the velcro straps, and it is a big improvement. I also do think there is scope to significantly improve specifically on the Camper Longflap, and I would be willing to pay a lot more for a premium version.

Carradice Stockport Bag



Brompton Game Bag

[pwa]

My hope is that Carradice continue as a Lancashire manufacturer, much as Brooks continued (mostly) as a Midlands manufacturer after their acquisition by another company. A reassuring statement along those lines would be welcome. On their own site Aquapac do boast that 80% of their products are handmade in the UK, so I am hopeful. If they outsource they won't get another penny off me.

[pete75]

If you take the Carradice Brompton Bags, it's certainly possible to envisage that the bags could be improved with a more sophisticated design and better quality materials, but such a product already exists, the Brompton Game Bag, which is made by Chapman, a specialist high quality bag manufacturer in Cumbria (compare the photographs below).

I doubt the materials use dfor that Chapman are better higher quality than Carradice use. Certainly the waxed cotton is sourced from the same Dundee company and the leather parts don't look any sturdier.
I recently bought a new Carradice City Folder bag for my Brompton. Traditional black and white which is what I prefer. Sixty quid from Spa Cycles. That Chapman bag is smaller, costs over 200 quid and I doubt the materials or quality of construction will be any better than the Carradice. The comparison pictures I'd like to see are of the two bags after a few years of regular use, not new and unused.

The build and material quality of Carradice wax cotton products have been proven over more than 80 years.

[Tangled Metal]

Well if sending production of their carradry range overseas is an option then they should take it. My carradry bar bag was full of frayed edges to the waterproof fabric.

Very sloppy production with no trimming of the loose ends. I'm certain overseas production would make it a better product. However I'm not fussy and trimmed those loose threads myself. It is still waterproof and integrity of the seams isn't an issue it's purely a case of poor quality control creating a cosmetically poor product.

I'm not stuck in the past, never liked the cotton duck look neither. I chose carradry bar bag because it was a larger capacity than ortlieb and looked a little like ortlieb bar bags too. Ortlieb panniers suit me perfectly so I wasn't going i but carradry panniers even before seeing this bar bag.

Overseas production can be as good as UK production, better too! We are not the manufacturing nation we once were. Made in Britain isn't a badge of quality these days unless you pay over the odds for truly luxurious products. The only advantage is supporting UK workers and distance travelled of the finished goods. Although the last one is moot as they probably get a lot of component materials from overseas anyway. Most UK manufacturers do.

[rogerzilla]

The one thing that really kills a Carradice is leaning or scraping it along a brick wall. Cotton duck isn't good with abrasion. You can patch and darn the holes, of course.

[in4time]

Heresy alert: With the exponential growth in ebikes for commuting perhaps the new owners will have a keen eye on developing products for this market.

[GeekDadZoid]

I had noticed that Carradice has been selling Aquapac products on their eBay seconds account for a few months. Also the phone holder carradice launched last year is an Aquapac product so it looks like they have a working relationship already.

[Bmblbzzz]

You can imagine the brand somehow sub-dividing into a premium, very trad, leather, canvas and hand-stitching range, hopefully still made in Nelson, and a slightly more mainstream, higher-volume, more modern materials range, with less handicraft, and maybe made elsewhere.

There is already diversification into the bike-packing gear of more US-influenced shape, using different materials.

Do they have significant export trade? If not, that must be an opening too, because there is nothing large parts of the world like more than a very trad, English, hand-made product.

(The stitcher’s name is still inside each bag now)

Yes. For many years they had products that were export only. But I think it's mainly USA, Australia and similar, so there probably are openings in Europe.

[slowster]

I doubt the materials use dfor that Chapman are better higher quality than Carradice use. Certainly the waxed cotton is sourced from the same Dundee company and the leather parts don't look any sturdier.
I recently bought a new Carradice City Folder bag for my Brompton. Traditional black and white which is what I prefer. Sixty quid from Spa Cycles. That Chapman bag is smaller, costs over 200 quid and I doubt the materials or quality of construction will be any better than the Carradice. The comparison pictures I'd like to see are of the two bags after a few years of regular use, not new and unused.

The build and material quality of Carradice wax cotton products have been proven over more than 80 years.

The Brompton Game Bag is visibly a more sophisticated design and more costly to make, e.g. double bellows front pockets and use of leather trim and (straight and curved) piping for the main seams, and it has a strong aesthetic appeal by virtue of being modelled on a traditional country game bag' design. Which bag is 'better' is ultimately a subjective personal choice, and some customers might well prefer the Champan's appearance and design, as well as the lower price.

We don't know whether the grades of cotton duck are the same, and from examination of my bags Carradice seem to use a lighter weight grade than they used to, whereas I prefer the greater rigidity provided by the older fabric. They have also either deliberately switched to using thinner more flexible leather for their straps, or their quality control on occasion results in them using inferior leather (a possible explanation of why I've read many comments where people say they prefer the Super C plastic buckles in cold weather: the more flexible/floppy straps are difficult to use when wearing winter gloves, unlike the much stiffer straps on my older saddlebag).

[pete75]

My Carradice bag is recent, bought in February. The waxed cotton is as thick as on any other Carradice product I've had over the years and the leather straps are of the usual strength and quality. Have you any knowledge/experience of Chapman bags? They appear vastly over priced for what they are but it's your money and you can spend it how you like.

[pwa]

Well if sending production of their carradry range overseas is an option then they should take it. My carradry bar bag was full of frayed edges to the waterproof fabric.

Very sloppy production with no trimming of the loose ends. I'm certain overseas production would make it a better product. However I'm not fussy and trimmed those loose threads myself. It is still waterproof and integrity of the seams isn't an issue it's purely a case of poor quality control creating a cosmetically poor product.

I'm not stuck in the past, never liked the cotton duck look neither. I chose carradry bar bag because it was a larger capacity than ortlieb and looked a little like ortlieb bar bags too. Ortlieb panniers suit me perfectly so I wasn't going i but carradry panniers even before seeing this bar bag.

Overseas production can be as good as UK production, better too! We are not the manufacturing nation we once were. Made in Britain isn't a badge of quality these days unless you pay over the odds for truly luxurious products. The only advantage is supporting UK workers and distance travelled of the finished goods. Although the last one is moot as they probably get a lot of component materials from overseas anyway. Most UK manufacturers do.

I thought about cotton duck Super C versus Carradry and decided on cotton duck Super C because it sounded like it had more integrity, rather than being reliant on a waterproof membrane or coating that wouldn't last indefinitely. Super C and cotton duck are more what Carradice is about, with old world charm and the promise of a couple of decades of use. It isn't being "stuck in the past" to prefer stuff that lasts, stuff that uses less synthetic (polymer) material, and stuff that originates from close to home. Very close to your home. Doesn't it bother you that we finance an ever more powerful totalitarian regime by buying so much of our stuff from China?

[Tangled Metal]

Carradry is probably more likely to remain waterproof without extra treatment over time. Seams are ultrasonically sealed and I know from when my old employer looked into such welding it's capable of a durable and waterproof seam that lasts. Carradry is basically ortlieb on the cheap and they last pretty well. Certainly get your moneys worth compared to other kit you might buy to carry things.

Cotton duck is a design ethic that you like or your don't. It needs more effort to work well in that it might need reproofing, repairing or dry bags used inside it. Another choice that I suspect gets more I patronage from the older generations.

Having said that it has a very strong following. After leaving university I looked into joining a very active local CTC group. I got taken aside by several older members when I went to the AGM to see about joining, a coincidence it was coming up when I enquired and I got invited. They explained that I needed two things on my bike, full mudguards front and rear, which I can fully agree with and understand. The second mandatory was a carradice saddlebag. I kid you not! I got told that I would not be allowed to join a club ride without both of these by 3 different, senior members who I took at committee members.

Needless to say I did my own riding, didn't join them and had 20 plus years kayaking with the canoe club I joined instead. I only had the means to join one club out of those two. Time and money for kit.

[simonhill]

The one thing that really kills a Carradice is leaning or scraping it along a brick wall. Cotton duck isn't good with abrasion. You can patch and darn the holes, of course.

I would have thought the opposite.

My Cs are regularly leant against walls etc and although they show marks or even traces of whitewash, etc there's no real sign of life threatening wear. Any puncture wounds (thorns, etc) heal unless the threads are cut. Gentle dragging against a wall (bike rolling) has little effect. It's tough old stuff.

I would think shiny plastic would scratch and be liable to piercing, tearing, etc. As in I'd be very careful leaning my lilo against a rough wall.

[slowster]

My Carradice bag is recent, bought in February. The waxed cotton is as thick as on any other Carradice product I've had over the years and the leather straps are of the usual strength and quality.

Older Carradice bags used cotton duck with finer thread and a higher threads per inch count, as well as thicker leather for the straps. The fabric of the current bags is ~18 TPI, and for older bags it is ~22 TPI. It is that higher TPI count which makes the older bags hold their shape much better, which is an important attribute for the large capacity bags like the Camper and Super C saddlebag. I think the switch to the lower TPI count fabric has occurred within the last 10 years. The thickness of the leather straps on current bags is ~2.4mm, whereas on older bags it is ~3.6mm.

[rogerzilla]

The one thing that really kills a Carradice is leaning or scraping it along a brick wall. Cotton duck isn't good with abrasion. You can patch and darn the holes, of course.

I would have thought the opposite.

My Cs are regularly leant against walls etc and although they show marks or even traces of whitewash, etc there's no real sign of life threatening wear. Any puncture wounds (thorns, etc) heal unless the threads are cut. Gentle dragging against a wall (bike rolling) has little effect. It's tough old stuff.

I would think shiny plastic would scratch and be liable to piercing, tearing, etc. As in I'd be very careful leaning my lilo against a rough wall.

If you look at older ones, the tops of the side pockets are often full of holes. They are the part that makes contact with walls. I spent hours darning and patching an old Lowdown earlier this year.