Keeping my battery dry

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
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monxton
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Joined: 12 Mar 2010, 12:42pm

Keeping my battery dry

Post by monxton »

The massive storm outside right now has prompted me to post this question that has been worrying me for a while.

Last year I found out the hard way that extreme weather and my e-bike battery are not good touring partners. An expensive new battery later, I am seeking advice as to how to stop history repeating itself.

The battery is in the downtube.

A cheap and simple option could be to carry a large piece of plastic and tie it as tightly as possible around the battery. Looks ugly, fiddly to put on, and difficult to see the indicators or use the switch.

I also wondered if companies who make custom bikepacking bags could create something for me, perhaps with a zip closure under the downtube.

Either way there would probably be some water ingress from the top, but it should be limited.

I'm interested in any suggestions, whether alternative solutions or proposals of companies who might create a custom battery protector. Replacing the bike is not under consideration.
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simonineaston
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by simonineaston »

That's an interesting Q. Given the potenial current available across a short, I'd have thought the designers would have given quite some consideration to weather-proofing the battery compartment.
As an aside, my 36v, 4Ah battery lives in an Ortlieb bag.
Ortlieb mini O bag
Ortlieb mini O bag
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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monxton
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by monxton »

I have now found a few products that could fit the bill, such as the VGOL E-Bike Battery Protector Cover. I'll get one to try.
wheelriding
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Joined: 23 May 2021, 9:26am

Keeping my battery dry

Post by wheelriding »

Just passing on what my local bike dealer said - they advised me not to ride with a cover over the battery as there is a risk of overheating. I have a cover which I use when transporting my bike on the back of my car without its battery in situ, hopefully reducing the risk of a battery fire if the car is rear ended whilst carrying the bike.
richtea99
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by richtea99 »

It may be worth asking with the manufacturer if they have an existing solution, especially since it's a built-in battery, i.e. it's not a generic kit.

For example, the Fazua system (in the downtube like yours) has a drainage hole - well hidden - and could get blocked with mud/dust if you don't know it's there.
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monxton
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by monxton »

wheelriding wrote: 19 May 2022, 2:46pm Just passing on what my local bike dealer said - they advised me not to ride with a cover over the battery as there is a risk of overheating. I have a cover which I use when transporting my bike on the back of my car without its battery in situ, hopefully reducing the risk of a battery fire if the car is rear ended whilst carrying the bike.
That's a good point about overheating, but it is also true that charging and discharging at low temperatures will damage the battery, so a cover could help. Personally I would be unlikely to ride at temperatures approaching 0°C, but I don't know the profile of how the battery degrades as the temperature reduces. Batteries like to be in the range of 10-20°C. In the torrential downpour in Yorkshire that did for my battery, I don't think overheating would have been an issue. In a tropical rainstorm, maybe.
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monxton
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by monxton »

richtea99 wrote: 19 May 2022, 3:51pm It may be worth asking with the manufacturer if they have an existing solution, especially since it's a built-in battery, i.e. it's not a generic kit.

For example, the Fazua system (in the downtube like yours) has a drainage hole - well hidden - and could get blocked with mud/dust if you don't know it's there.
It is built-in, but removeable. It slots into the (fat) downtube, not like the Fazua system which goes right inside the downtube.
The manufacturer offers a plate to cover the hole in the downtube when the battery is removed, but nothing for when the battery is in place.
hemo
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by hemo »

In all reality ebikes are not designed for riding in heavy downpours or being left to stand for long in heavy rain, they are at best shower proof when]n it comes to rain.
Last edited by hemo on 21 May 2022, 1:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
rotavator
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by rotavator »

hemo wrote: 21 May 2022, 8:47am In all reality ebikes are designed for riding in heavy downpours or being left to stand for long in heavy rain, they are at best shower proof when it comes to rain.
Did you mean "are not designed"?
Jdsk
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by Jdsk »

simonineaston wrote: 18 May 2022, 11:08pmGiven the potenial current available across a short, I'd have thought the designers would have given quite some consideration to weather-proofing the battery compartment.
If the short is via the water the current wouldn't be very high. You can run exposed car batteries and simple circuits underwater. As demonstrated in the episode of Scrapheap Challenge where they built electric submarines, and by the advice to switch your headlights on if you drive off a dock.

Jonathan
saudidave
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by saudidave »

rotavator wrote: 21 May 2022, 8:57am
hemo wrote: 21 May 2022, 8:47am In all reality ebikes are designed for riding in heavy downpours or being left to stand for long in heavy rain, they are at best shower proof when it comes to rain.
Did you mean "are not designed"?
Where did you gain the knowledge that ebikes are at best showerproof or did you, as I suspect, just assume it? They just wouldn't be a viable proposition if that were the case and I suggest you are talking nonesesnse. I've never seen any reports of ebikes failing in the rain and mine, equipped with a Bosch battery mounted on top of the downtube has been ridden many miles in rain, often heavy when I had a daily commute of 25 miles, with no issues whatsoever.
hemo
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by hemo »

rotavator wrote: 21 May 2022, 8:57am
hemo wrote: 21 May 2022, 8:47am In all reality ebikes are designed for riding in heavy downpours or being left to stand for long in heavy rain, they are at best shower proof when it comes to rain.
Did you mean "are not designed"?
Yes missed the imortant bit out some how, see if I can edit it in.
hemo
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by hemo »

Quite a few posts in the past on other forums where bikes were left out in the rain, only for them to fail from water ingress.
Most of the time when riding the battery is some what covered by the rider but yes still open to some of the elements, try leaving your expesnive bosch bike out in the standing rain to see if it is water proof.
My brother has a bosh kalkhoff and use to carry a spare battery to work for his commute, he palced it in a pannier along with acan of coke. The tin or bottle leaked and the battery ended up swimming in coke, the battery failed. The cells may have been ok but the bms electronics likely didn't as the battery will brick and bosh won't repair them, so they are fit for recycling.
saudidave
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by saudidave »

hemo wrote: 21 May 2022, 1:25pm Quite a few posts in the past on other forums where bikes were left out in the rain, only for them to fail from water ingress.
Most of the time when riding the battery is some what covered by the rider but yes still open to some of the elements, try leaving your expesnive bosch bike out in the standing rain to see if it is water proof.
My brother has a bosh kalkhoff and use to carry a spare battery to work for his commute, he palced it in a pannier along with acan of coke. The tin or bottle leaked and the battery ended up swimming in coke, the battery failed. The cells may have been ok but the bms electronics likely didn't as the battery will brick and bosh won't repair them, so they are fit for recycling.
My ebike has had the motor submerged in flood water overnight when my house was flooded and was unscathed. It's running admirably well 3 years and several thousand miles later. Bosch told me several months later that if the display had no error message then the internal moisture sensor hadn't been wet at any point. The rest of the bike was thoroughly stripped and refurbished after the flood but I couldn't do anything with the motor or battery as they are non serviceable sealed units. I did the strip and rebuild myself as no bike shops were prepared to do it and an engineers report from one said it was an economic write off. The hub gears were rebuilt with new seals but are prematúrely failing and the brakes have since been replaced too due to internal corrosion issues

I've ridden it in to flood water to get through a flooded dip in the road during which the motor and bottom half of the battery were fully submerged and no issues arose from that either.

I've spent (cumulatively) many hours commuting in the rain then parking the wet through bike in my garage and no issues. I've also left it outside the office I was working in, chained to a street sign outside, in the rain, all day long on many occasions. It rains a lot in Manchester!. All I did was remove the lights and control display and tie a plastic bag over the leather seat. No problems of any nature have arisen.

I clean the bike by spraying it with Muc off, followed by hosing it off and that's a lot more invasive than it being in the rain. No problems

Now, about your brothers issue with a battery soaked in coke. That would knacker anything electronic for sure. Try dropping a dirty coin in coke and leaving it for a few hours and it comes out bright and shiny beacause coke is highly corrosive. Coke and electronics are a no no and it's a totally different fluid than rainwater is. The substance that destroyed your brothers battery wasn't water it was coke. It doesn't rain coke anywhere that I'm aware of

Please reference the scientifically proven and verified article that has proven conclusively that ebikes can't be used in the rain and are no more than showerproof, or any other reliable souce making that claim. I doubt if you can because ebikes wouldn't be viable in wet conditions, particularly in the monsoon areas of the world if that were the case and my personal experience is telling me that rain and riding in it does no harm to the battery or the motor whatsoever.
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Cowsham
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Re: Keeping my battery dry

Post by Cowsham »

Here's a solution involving coke -- an empty plastic coke bottle or whatever clear plastic empty bottle you can find that fits the best.

Cut it length ways in half and secure it with insulating tape ( PVC tape ) around the down tube so that you can reach underneath and switch it on. Unraveling the tape to remove for charging.

But seriously my bro is taking his recently converted lecky bike to the island for the tt ( tourist trophy not time trial :lol: ) so I'm going to cover the battery with a large cheap thin clear plastic freezer bag taping that in place ( or probably just pulling it over the bottle type battery ) so that the switch can be pressed through the thin plastic bag.

I'll take a roll of the bags ( about £1 from Tesco ) so I don't have to be fussy about tearing them off and they'll have a dual purpose keeping food while camping. Don't forget the small roll of PVC tape.

The battery won't heat up that much with a thin bag over it -- you can put your hand on it through the bag if your anxious about how hot it'll get. I think his has a temperature indicator on the control screen.
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