Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Blondie
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Blondie »

Refuse to cycle between work sites on the basis that they have clearly identified risks on the routes far beyond what you’d normally expect on public roads. Ask them to provide an alternate means of getting between sites that doesn’t involve you cycling.
thirdcrank
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by thirdcrank »

Beware of firing bullets made by others.
mattheus
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Location: Western Europe

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by mattheus »

thirdcrank wrote: 20 May 2022, 1:04pm Beware of firing bullets made by others.
Yes.

And dogma.

Avoid that too.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by PedallingSquares »

Why do you have/need to cycle between sites in working hours?
Is a bike the means supplied by your employer or is this stipulated as their preferred means of travel?

During your working hours you are actually at work whether on site or mobile so technically under your companys T&Cs.If you are using your own vehicle,in this case a bicycle,you are bound by their T&Cs to comply with H&S and insurance requirements.You could ask to sign an opt out waiver but they can decline to offer one.

If you don't wish to comply then ask for a company vehicle or decline to travel between sites.
cycle tramp
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by cycle tramp »

slowster wrote: 20 May 2022, 12:06pm
cycle tramp wrote: 19 May 2022, 10:34pm If anything it's helped me appreciate my employer's point of view.
By introducing these rules, your employer and your company's safety adviser/manager will be making a rod for their own backs. Rules like these should be introduced only where a risk assessment has determined that they are necessary. In this situation there is arguably no need even to undertake a risk assessment......
Thank you very much Slowster for your post. It's deeply appreciated. If you're comfortable i'm going to send it to my managers and ask if they can investigate further (with your identification removed)..

..I had already suspected that by loosing the legal team my organisation has lost its ability to form a legal opinion on the decisions it makes, and given the nature of admissions (i.e. staff travelling to and from workplaces by powered two wheelers, hired electric scooters, no safety standards specified for hiz-viz or cycle helmets) in the safe travel plan i am now left wondering as to the competence of our current H&S team
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
cycle tramp
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by cycle tramp »

PedallingSquares wrote: 20 May 2022, 4:41pm Why do you have/need to cycle between sites in working hours?
Is a bike the means supplied by your employer or is this stipulated as their preferred means of travel?

During your working hours you are actually at work whether on site or mobile so technically under your companys T&Cs.If you are using your own vehicle,in this case a bicycle,you are bound by their T&Cs to comply with H&S and insurance requirements.You could ask to sign an opt out waiver but they can decline to offer one.

If you don't wish to comply then ask for a company vehicle or decline to travel between sites.
Not as yet. The travel plan has recently been written along with practises for safe working at home, lone working, and stress management. However if I don't raise issues now, it's going to become embedded in the work culture. There's a fair amount of shee(p)eople in my work place*
I believe its a tick box exercise that my organisation as brought in to stop any claims being made against them, if they are sued. However in reading Slowster's post, it's now possible that my organisation has opened themselves up for more legal claims to be made against them, because my organisation has identified the risks but may not be able to prove that they have placed controls or carried out enforcement action to prevent incidents from occurring.

* I don't mean that they're not nice people to work with, because they are - it's just that questioning managerial decisions makes them uneasy.
Motorhead: god was never on your sidehttps://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=m ... +your+side
Pebble
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Pebble »

potentially more dangerous in the autumn and winter with slippy leaves and ice. then there is the problem of broken bottles and dog crap. Also some cycle paths are too busy with pedestrians, dog walkers, mothers pushing prams side by side.

I would accept the helmet terms provided they provide the lid (I don't always wear one) but I would object to the cycle path nonsense - I'm not against cyclepaths some are excellent and I use them, but some are just utter nonsense.
slowster
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by slowster »

cycle tramp wrote: 21 May 2022, 12:49pm Thank you very much Slowster for your post. It's deeply appreciated. If you're comfortable i'm going to send it to my managers and ask if they can investigate further (with your identification removed)..
You are welcome; feel free to use it in discussion with your managers. To avoid offending anyone I suggest you omit the comment about the policy having been drawn up by 'someone with a fairly low level of H&S qualification/experience'. You may also wish to copy and add to it from my long post on page 2 of the thread.

As regards identification, unlike Nearholmer I am not going to provide information about my qualifications, expertise and professional experience, or the lack of them. Consequently your managers will not be able to rely just on my advice (and sue me if it turns out to be wrong), because they will not know whether I am competent. I am happy to give you my advice, but if your managers want/need a competent professional to put their signature to such advice, they will have to find one and pay them.
cycle tramp wrote: 21 May 2022, 12:49pm ..I had already suspected that by loosing the legal team my organisation has lost its ability to form a legal opinion on the decisions it makes, and given the nature of admissions [I presume that is a typo and should be 'omissions'] (i.e. staff travelling to and from workplaces by powered two wheelers, hired electric scooters, no safety standards specified for hiz-viz or cycle helmets) in the safe travel plan i am now left wondering as to the competence of our current H&S team
Unless the legal team included people with experience of claims for negligence, they might not have been able to provide the necessary advice anyway.

Regarding your mention of other types of transport, those probably present far bigger risks and potential problems than cycling.

- Many people's car insurance policies will not cover travelling between different work sites, so it would be essential that is addressed.

- If an employee uses a de-restricted e-bike or non-hired scooter, i.e. illlegal powered vehicles, that could be a problem. The employee will not have insurance cover for them. If they have an accident and injure someone while travelling between work sites, your employer might be sued for damages on the basis of vicarious liability. I think in that situation your employer might have no insurance cover to pay their legal defence costs or any award made by a court. Even with legally hired scooters it might be that the insurance cover provided by the hirer does not include 'business use'.

The above are the sort of issues that should be raised by your employer with their insurance broker (rather than a lawyer).
fastpedaller
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by fastpedaller »

I guess at least the OP's employers think they are doing the correct thing! 40 years ago I worked at a ( well-known household brand) company that exhibited a rather strange idea of Health and Safety...........
We were required to go to another site to do a stock-take. I asked about the necessity to have 'business use' insurance for vehicles and their response was 'If anything happened we'd say you were on holiday that day" To which I asked "what about if a company truck drives into my car in the Warehouse car park?" They didn't answer. During the stock-take the Supervisor instructed us to put a loose pallet on a fork lift and be raised about 15 feet where we could clamber on the product boxes and open them to ensure they were full. I pointed out this was unsafe, especially if the 'counter' stepped on an empty section of box and fell 15 ft onto the concrete below. I was told "Richard will go up you can stand and take notes" I replied that I wasn't prepared to be part of it, and wasn't capable of catching Richard if he fell! Unbelievable. I used my bike on the day and returned and had washed and was sitting at my desk 20 minutes before the motorists (illegal as no insurance?) returned,
I spoke with the H&S guy the next day and he was horrified, and also mentioned I should get at least 'bus fare' if I was using my bike.
For my insubordination, my Supervisor took my into an office to give me a verbal warning - He took out a notepad and wrote in block capitals VERBAL WARNING. I, understandably, burst out laughing and told him 'this is a joke surely' challenged him to sack me, and walked out of the room.
We did another stock-take a few days later (this time with a human-carrying cage bolted to the fork lift.) I used my bike again, and as they wouldn't give me any £rate for bike use I put in a useful training ride on the way back to the office, arriving 1/2 hour after the others. :lol:
The company was sold to the Chinese a few years after - the UK sites were closed, and I wonder if the company operates to better standards in its new home?
Pete Owens
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Pete Owens »

PedallingSquares wrote: 20 May 2022, 4:41pm Why do you have/need to cycle between sites in working hours?
is this stipulated as their preferred means of travel?
Well it certainly ought to be.

Since their risk assessment is obviously concerned about the danger caused by motor vehicle use, they really should not allow any employees to use motor vehicles on company business unless absolutely necessary.
Steady rider
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Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Steady rider »

Quoting, Clarke CF, Gillham C,(2019) Effects of bicycle helmet wearing on accident and injury rates, GB Nation-al Road Safety Conference, November 2019 https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... jury_rates

may be helpful by adding
Evidence suggests that a correctly fitted helmet may reduce your risk of sustaining a head injury in certain circumstances, however, some studies find no effect or even a negative effect.

Advice could be
Consider wearing a cycle helmet as evidence suggests that a correctly fitted helmet may reduce your risk of sustaining a head injury in certain circumstances, however, some studies find no effect or even a negative effect.
Benz3ne
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Joined: 25 May 2021, 8:53am

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Benz3ne »

cycle tramp wrote: 18 May 2022, 8:34pm So, my work has employed some health & safety officers to look at all our policies. This includes travelling between sites for work purposes..

..they've recommended that helmet and hi-vis be worn and that cycle paths are used where possible for all staff employed in works time travelling between sites by bicycle..

..normally we'd ignore it, but they've asked us to sign and date a document saying that we've read understood and will obey it..
..I've said that I wouldn't unless they've changed the wording to 'cycle paths to be used where practical'

...at this point I need some advice. Is my place of work right in restricting how I use the road network? Do I have any recourse to object and if so on what grounds? Any advice would be appreciated :-)
The 'recommended' isn't a 'must' so can be taken with a pinch of salt. If you claim that the cycle paths are not of a suitable riding quality then it isn't possible for you to ride them also.
My previous employer had a 'declaration' document drawn up for staff to sign, to say that we would not leave the house unless absolutely necessary during (almost the entirety of) the pandemic. I said that they could not reasonably distinguish between staff members and their necessities, and that they should not be checking on employees whereabouts after work hours, nor that it took into account govt. guidance. I mentioned the above as someone who agreed that contact with others unless necessary wasn't a good idea.
The same employer also insisted that they have the entirety of their sales staff in on split shifts when they could all theoretically have worked from home (following a DSE risk assessment).

I agree with others and would request to see the risk assessment and have it explained by your H&S team to you, with someone else present. I don't see any way in which they could reasonably stipulate that sticking to cycle lanes wherever they're present may be a better idea than sticking to the road. FWIW all of my crashes have been on shared paths, not the road.
Steady rider
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Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: Help! Work has brought in their own safety policy on bike travel between sites

Post by Steady rider »

Helmet advice
The actual risk of serious head injury when cycling is usually very small. Some evidence suggests that a correctly fitted helmet may reduce your risk of sustaining a head injury in certain circumstances, however, some studies find no effect or even a negative effect. Individuals should decide for themselves if to wear one.

Cycle path/track advice
Cycle path/track conditions vary considerably and the state of repair can be a safety issue, so individuals should decide for themselves if to use them, unless mandatory.
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