Manchester Toxic Air Zone

pete75
Posts: 16356
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by pete75 »

Pete Owens wrote: 14 May 2022, 3:29pm Looks like Andy Burnham has come out in favour of continuing to poison the inhabitants of the city:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-61439444
Good. Probably the best think to do with Mancs. :wink:
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by mjr »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 25 May 2022, 6:13pm Seems unlikely. In the case of Rees, the only trouble from national government has been of the "you should have done this years ago" sort, and there hasn't been a concerted media opposition.
Did Rees get funding from national government? And have the Bristol Pest stopped stirring up hate against cycling?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6249
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Don't know to your first question; I'd have a guess that he missed the deadline for funding by a few years! And to your second question, the Post, like all Reach media, alternately hates and loves cycling (and associated measures). The main point is that Rees's reluctance to introduce a Clean Air Zone* stems mostly from his fear of alienating his voter base, which in his case is (or he perceives) in the southern suburbs, and he wouldn't have done so had he not been required to do it by central government.

*The very name is ridiculous – clean air should be the default. Whoever thought it up, presumably a civil servant, should be ashamed of themselves.
rareposter
Posts: 1964
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by rareposter »

ratherbeintobago wrote: 25 May 2022, 6:25pm Probably hasn’t done any good that local Tories in GM have been willing to stir up trouble for a mayor from an opposing party?
It was the Tory Government that told Burnham he had to implement a CAZ...

Manchester got stuck a while ago when it had that ridiculous referendum about introducing congestion charging / CAZ with the funds going to expansion of the tram network. The referendum was a resounding NO which demonstrates why asking the public important things via referendum is a catastrophically stupid idea.

As a result, it's now stuck in a situation where any attempts to introduce any such scheme is met by "but the referendum..." It doesn't help that the council get a lot of revenue from their car parks and don't want to see that revenue stream drying up so actually they're not bothered about restricting cars.

A CAZ that exempts private vehicles is also utterly stupid. Why charge the tradesman but not the private driver?! It's the wrong way round. But again... "the referendum..."
ratherbeintobago
Posts: 971
Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by ratherbeintobago »

rareposter wrote: 26 May 2022, 12:52pm
ratherbeintobago wrote: 25 May 2022, 6:25pm Probably hasn’t done any good that local Tories in GM have been willing to stir up trouble for a mayor from an opposing party?
It was the Tory Government that told Burnham he had to implement a CAZ...
Was it now?

Image
It doesn't help that the council get a lot of revenue from their car parks mobility hubs and don't want to see that revenue stream drying up so actually they're not bothered about restricting cars.
FTFY
A CAZ that exempts private vehicles is also utterly stupid. Why charge the tradesman but not the private driver?! It's the wrong way round.
We can agree on that at least, though as above there was a scrappage scheme for older cars but not for commercial vehicles.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by thirdcrank »

Let's not forget that Andy Burnham is a hangover from Tony Blair's government.
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by Jdsk »

And favourite as next permanent Leader of the Labour Party. Currently 5/1:
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb ... armer.html

Jonathan
ratherbeintobago
Posts: 971
Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by ratherbeintobago »

Jdsk wrote: 26 May 2022, 1:37pm And favourite as next permanent Leader of the Labour Party. Currently 5/1:
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb ... armer.html

Jonathan
At least several problems with that, not least of which are that there isn't a leadership contest and he's not an MP.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by thirdcrank »

Bad news for Sadiq Khan, a long shot in 9th place at 25/1. In the equivalent odds for the Tories David frost is in 8th place at 14/1
ratherbeintobago
Posts: 971
Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by ratherbeintobago »

You have to be careful with these. One of them had Wera Hobhouse listed as a potential Tory leader.
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by Jdsk »

ratherbeintobago wrote: 26 May 2022, 1:53pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 May 2022, 1:37pm And favourite as next permanent Leader of the Labour Party. Currently 5/1:
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb ... armer.html
At least several problems with that, not least of which are that there isn't a leadership contest and he's not an MP.
And the bookmaker and the punters know both of those, which makes it even more interesting.

Jonathan
saudidave
Posts: 583
Joined: 16 Jan 2009, 12:22am

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by saudidave »

I've read through this post and it's all about cars

The Manchester clean air zone doesn't include private cars,motorcycles or mopeds, they are exempt! Only commercial vehicles are affected so it is effectively discouraging commerce and industry throughout Greater Manchester. It's a great way to destroy the economy of the region.

What left wing tree hugger thought this one up in the first place? It's akin to licencing roadside flower sellers. You raise a couple of quid from said licences and then bankrupt all the florists and lose a thousand times more in business rates
ratherbeintobago
Posts: 971
Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by ratherbeintobago »

saudidave wrote: 26 May 2022, 2:27pm I've read through this post and it's all about cars

The Manchester clean air zone doesn't affect private cars,motorcycles or mopeds, they are exempt! Only commercial vehicles are affected so it is effectively discouraging commerce and industry tthroughout Grater Manchester. It's a grat way to destroy the economy of the region.

What left wing tree hugger thought that one up in the first place? It's akin to licencing roadside flower sellers. You raise a couple of quid from said licences and then bankrupt all the florists and lose a thousand time more in business rates
It does seem spectacularly ill-judged, yes. I think they should've made it all vehicles going into the city centre, but as above MCC makes too much money from mobility hubs.

Against that, the air quality in GM is awful and we need to do something.
Pete Owens
Posts: 2440
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by Pete Owens »

ratherbeintobago wrote: 26 May 2022, 1:53pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 May 2022, 1:37pm And favourite as next permanent Leader of the Labour Party. Currently 5/1:
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb ... armer.html

Jonathan
At least several problems with that, not least of which are that there isn't a leadership contest and he's not an MP.
Those two problems are actually the solutions to each other.
IF there was likely to be an iminent leadership contest then not being an MP would be a problem
Pete Owens
Posts: 2440
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Manchester Toxic Air Zone

Post by Pete Owens »

saudidave wrote: 26 May 2022, 2:27pm I've read through this post and it's all about cars

The Manchester clean air zone doesn't include private cars,motorcycles or mopeds, they are exempt! Only commercial vehicles are affected so it is effectively discouraging commerce and industry throughout Greater Manchester. It's a great way to destroy the economy of the region.

What left wing tree hugger thought this one up in the first place? It's akin to licencing roadside flower sellers. You raise a couple of quid from said licences and then bankrupt all the florists and lose a thousand times more in business rates
The original scheme was intended to include private cars. The decision to exclude them was an earlier act of backsliding from Andy Burnam.
Post Reply