What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
PH
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by PH »

Slowtwitch wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 5:49am
al_yrpal wrote: 3 Feb 2022, 10:16am "Total luggage weight 35 kg.
Weight distribution: 5 kg front 10 kg rear 20 kg trailer
!!!

Crikey, my all up camping touring luggage weight is about 16kg. I think you ought to leave out the bath .... :lol: :lol:

Al
Absolutely, that's a heck of a lot of gear!
I don't think Horizon was asking anyone to carry it for them!
I've credited them with enough sense to know how much gear it is and the question is posed from that starting point. We don't have to understand why someone wants to carry a deckchair and dinner suit, or someone else sleep in a ditch to save carrying a tent, or anywhere in between, but it shouldn't be too hard to accept it's their choice.
My camping gear ranges from 8kg to about 25kg, depending on what I choose for the tour.
Jdsk
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by Jdsk »

PH wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 9:18am We don't have to understand why someone wants to carry a deckchair and dinner suit, or someone else sleep in a ditch to save carrying a tent, or anywhere in between, but it shouldn't be too hard to accept it's their choice.
Well said.

It's always interesting to hear what others do and don't take. And it has affected our choices.

But the judgemental stuff doesn't help anyone. And might deter others from joining in.

Jonathan
jb
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by jb »

Some people, believe it or not, like to enjoy the camping experience and don't care about pounding the miles.
So if they choose to take a dinner jacket fully operational Rayburn and drinks bar it's their choice & good for them.
Cheers
J Bro
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horizon
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by horizon »

Just to clarify a bit more, I'm trying to find a means of travelling and touring (including camping) that would usually be done by car but I would like to do by bike if possible. So I'm not planning a cycle tour per se, more a journey involving family visits, longer stays here and there, a few books and souvenirs and possibly more camping comfort and convenience. It's the kind of thing, as I suggested upthread, that someone might do in a camper van. My own motorised vehicle of choice would be a Deux Chevaux, about the closest thing you could get to a bicycle that was still classified as a car. But my "vehicle" of choice would still be a bike.

With the advent of e-bikes, it appeared that I could bridge the gap between the two. But I'm now thinking (from people's replies) that an e-bike might not bring substantial advantages over its obvious downsides: charging, upfront cost, complexity and weight.

At the moment I'm exploring trailers as a way to carry more and overcome the limits of bike loading (see my thread on the BOB). I'm also looking at how far I can push the weight boundary before it becomes unrealistic (see my thread how how much you can pull or carry on a bike).

Unless I'm missing something, there is surprisingly little on the internet along these lines. Crazy Guy on a BIke is good but it seems quite hard to find quantitative information that takes into account terrain, weight and the threshold at which an e-bike becomes the only solution (or in fact doesn't really help).
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
UpWrong
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by UpWrong »

Dare I mention recumbent trikes? There are models which will take 2 sets of full size panniers and towing a trailer is viable. You can have 81 gears and go as slowly up a hill as you like without falling off 🤣.
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horizon
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by horizon »

UpWrong wrote: 28 Feb 2022, 8:33am Dare I mention recumbent trikes?
You are very welcome!

I have considered one for that very reason (though more in the past than now). I certainly fancy a trike and only the usual impediments (storage, travel by train and cost) put me off. Strangely I would much prefer one to an e-bike but an e-bike you can take on the train, store easily at home and not pay more than a recumbent.

By the way, although falling over is the problem addressed by the trike, what it is actually doing is allowing you to pull a much heavier weight (as it facilitates a much lower gear, going slowly ...).

Here is one I found:
Recumbent trailer.jpg
I'm presuming this is how this guy pulls his trailer - it weighs apparently about 300 kg.

PS It's got me thinking!
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
ikenbikeit
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by ikenbikeit »

I have just done a 300 mile tour- the Mercian way .Here is how I charged my Bosch 500 battery
1st night did 35 miles ---in the pub near campsite
2nd day 45 miles. I had battery anxiety with 10 miles to go, so a half hour in Cirencester Neros. Evening I charged it pub next to campsite
3rd night in an electric hookup on site. the owner didnt mind when asked.
4th night after 48 miles I charged in pub
5th night in recreation room on site
6th night 40 miles- Brigenorth costa coffee.for 30 mins then at campsite an electric hookup.
last night in a shelter on the site.
I have just bought a 6amp charger and it takes 2 and a half hours to charge from empty. I also bought an electric caravan hookup to convert to an ordinary plug
I hope my experience helps although it does not directly answer the question

By the way, except for a couple of grotty bits, this tour is in my top 5. I never met anyone else doing it. Next Ayr to Scarborough
Biospace
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by Biospace »

horizon wrote: 29 Jan 2022, 5:48pm There was time years ago that I looked at better methods of motorised touring than a car and considered a motorbike. But I looked at the possible engine and decided 600 cc could be put to better use in a Deux Chevaux, complete with open top, comfy seats and no need to wear a helmet or leathers.
I hope you don't mind the re-opening of this thread months after your post, horizon, but I think you've put your finger on something. French quadricycles come between bikes and small cars, the best of which by far I'd say is the (electric) Renault Twizzy, but it's not very comfortable and pretty much a single seater. Citroën has recently introduced its electric Ami quadricycle, but it's desperately slow (30mph) and crude. A 2cv was an amazingly versatile, cheap, tough vehicle, there's nothing around today which quite fills its space.

The closest I ever came to what you might consider suitable was a handbuilt open top 'sports tourer' based on a 1970s (Citroën) Ami8 chassis which I bought years ago. It had been constructed rather beautifully by an ex RAF fighter pilot and was a little like an ancient Morgan 3 wheeler. He and his wife had toured Europe in it, "absolute luxury" compared with an aircraft cockpit and being shot at. 60mpg, 95mph if you were really in a hurry, you felt more 'connected' with the road than any motorbike and was so much fun, yet also very tough, practical and capable. There are similar things today named 'Triking', a little pricey and though.

One aspect of all this is perhaps that you've achieved near perfection with your touring on a good bike, with good company, good kit, enough experience to make things well organised and so on. But I do feel there is a market out there for a quadricycle-class vehicle which can achieve the equivalent of 240mpg, sit at 65mph, carry two people plus luggage and ooze charm. It would appeal to commuter, student, world-tourist, and possibly cyclists and bikers who didn't want to have the ignomy of owning a car. We've forgotten how to be innovative in the small vehicle sector, so should legislate for such a thing!

I don't think an electric motor on your bike would actually improve anything for you, I've found ebikes best at doing local trips when otherwise I'd take a car - when time or energy is limited.
Bonzo Banana
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Re: What would be different, better or worse for touring?

Post by Bonzo Banana »

bikes4two wrote: 23 Feb 2022, 4:58pm An interesting thread - a couple of other things:
> electric bikes are more desirable for the light fingered so deterent methods may need reviewing?
> adding electric power/motors to a bike is tripling the complexity of an otherwise simple machine - overall reliability is therefore lessened which may or may not be a concern.

I've recently gone 'ebike' after many years and thousands of miles unassisted touring - I'd be thinking long and hard about all the parameters involved in touring on an ebike for sure!
Hub motors can increase reliability of a bike. Hub motors especially direct drive are very simple with no moving parts except the axle bearings and because they work independently of the drivetrain the drivetrain is under far less strain and can last much longer. However like all choices there are pros and cons, they don't assist as much going up hill as the most powerful mid-drive motors although can be more powerful than low power mid-drive motors and if you get a puncture can be a little more time consuming to deal with if you have torque arms fitted typical of ebike kits but not so typical of pre-built ebikes with hub motors. Also many mid-drive motors are highly complicated internally and very proprietary so if a motor fails it cannot be quickly repaired. A simple geared hub motor can fail but still work fine as the clutch/freewheel mechanism still operates it just won't assist you. A direct drive hub motor is a different ball game, it has some resistance in use when not assisting but then you can use re-gen to get some charge back and they never really fail because there isn't much to go wrong really but they are heavy. A simple good quality geared hub motor would seem ideal to me for touring extending drivetrain life and providing a second person of power to go up hills.
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