eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Exactly what she said ^

I have sold much including overseas.

I fully refurbed my 40 year old bike and rode it along the devon and cornwall coast.

No way any of that would happen without good old ebay.

Fees..........?

Penny pinching.

If you cant sell on ebay they nobody wants what you have.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
fastpedaller
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by fastpedaller »

LancsGirl wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 8:37pm I buy, and sell, a fair bit on eBay.

The only problems I have ever had have been with people wanting to do some - "let's bypass eBay" type thing. I don't think eBay fees are "extortionate". Online auctions have opened up a whole world of buying and selling which would otherwise be extremely cumbersome, costly, or just plain impossible. I've sold things I couldn't have got money for any other way, and bought things that I would never ever have been able to find, back in the days of classified ads and postcards in shop windows.

Anybody trying to use eBay to sell something, but then bypass their fees, is a charlatan I don't want to have any dealings with.

Play it straight. This seller clearly doesn't want to. If you carry on dealing with him/her there's a good chance you'll have trouble.
I agree wholehearted with you. I have bought and sold on Ebay, and if folk think the fees are too high they haven't see the fees traditional auction houses charge (both to seller and buyer"). If the fees are too high for an individual, they can choose not to advertise via Ebay, but of course it has great exposure.... you pays your money and takes your choice as they say.
Incidentally I recently sold late Father-In-Law's laptop via Gumtree. It was advertised on both Ebay and Gumtree. Within an hour of my cancelling the Ebay advert I had an enquiry from someone over 100 miles away (I had advertised it as collection only). This person was enquiring "Is the laptop still for sale, as I'm very interested". Interesting....... I told them it had been sold earlier that evening via Gumtree (absolutely true|), and heard no more. Maybe Ebay checking? Who knows? I can understand if they were. Those who complain about the high fees are (I guess) the same people who used to advertise something worth £20 for £1 with £19 postage in order to avoid fees - this led to Ebay charging fees on postage, thus penalising other, more genuine sellers. Rant over :lol:
Psamathe
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by Psamathe »

I don't know eBay but if you buy over eBay vs notes in person is there any difference in any recourse you might have (e.g. if anything later turns out "wrong")?

Ian
LancsGirl
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by LancsGirl »

Psamathe wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 10:57pm I don't know eBay but if you buy over eBay vs notes in person is there any difference in any recourse you might have (e.g. if anything later turns out "wrong")?

Ian
Yes. If it turns out to be not as described. Send it back and you'll get a refund. I have done exactly that. Notes in person? forget it, you're on your own there.

In fact a common complaint a few years ago was that eBay/PayPal would usually side with the buyer, to the detriment of sellers.

If you play by ebay's rules you shouldn't have too many problems, I have found. If you are selling you can limit who you sell to. For instance I won't sell to people with a certain number of "non paying bidder" strikes against them. That is they won an auction but didn't pay.

You can also sell all over the world, and now, with eBay's global marketplace thingy, you don't have to work out postage to anywhere. The ebay system works it out for you automagically. I sold a totally broken laptop to somebody in Sweden (I think) for about £250. There was no way I would have been able to sell that any other way. I can decide which countries I want to sell to.

And buying it's fantastic. I bought some vintage clothes a while ago that I've been lusting after for ages. I set up a saved search in eBay to alert me if they came up. After a few months they did, I bought. I could have trailed round every second hand shop in town for 20 years and never found them.

If you play by eBay's rules, enter into the spirit of it, be civil to people, and politely refuse to engage in shenanigans, it's generally a positive experience, I find. And after all, aren't we all try to cut down on waste and reuse stuff more?
home
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Re: Thoughts on this please

Post by home »

gxaustin wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 2:13pmEbay charges are extortionate so I can understand his wanting to avoid them. On the other hand I bet stolen goods are sold via Ebay.
I have to agree that eBay charges are extortionate especially given, that unlike actually sellers, they don't have to hold any stock. When you compare the margins they make, versus the margins actual e-commerce retailers make (i.e. holding stock & paying for property, wages & insurance etc), it's obscene. What is it now since they brought in the new managed payment system, over 13%?

What makes it worse is that they then treat sellers as if they were employees with all sorts of targets & compliancy (e.g. despatch/delivery times), nagging & punishments like you worked for them. And then, as LancsGirl points out, 99.99999% they will automatically back the buyer in any dispute even when, or ESPECIALLY WHEN, the buyer is entirely in the fault. They're the boss even when you're not even an employee. There is a certain eBay Kung Fu to play the system when it goes wrong but I would never trust them, & a growing proportion of their buyers, with more valuable items.

For much of the time, especially on small items, you're not actually making money selling stuff. You're just converting the time it takes to sell the stuff into money, and the profit you make is just getting rid of your junk. Fine if you're no longer working, but they've even screwed that as now any sales goes through your bank account ... taking upto 5 working days to clear via their "management payment system". Last year they took all transaction payments in house to screw more money out of users, raised the percentage, delayed the payments, & obscured the invoicing system at the same time to make it more difficult for buyers and sellers to know who each other were.

Basically, they don't just want a commission of whatever you sell. They want to own your relationship with your buyer/seller in perpetuity.

Perhaps the poster above is right, it sucks now in comparison to what it was because too many chancers like this guy took advantage of it, screwing it for everyone else.

EBay does monitor messages for people trying to swop contact details & I know a guy who was blocked for trying to (even, typically, although he was entirely innocent). There's also at least one gang of fraudsters selling bogus items they don't have using precisely that MO, i.e. putting a mobile number in picture or ad.

To answer another question asked, if you actually hit the Buy It Now and then pay in cash in person/on collection, you're still covered by the eBay sales protection which is worth having. But buying through the site, means that the moment you do put in a "not as advertised" returns claims, the money you paid is frozen, so the seller is incentivised to deal with the matter. It's like an escrow.

But, if you go along with the buyer cheating the system, then you have no come back.

Auctions always used to be free for me (I think they give you 100 a month or something).

Also NEVER use their postage system, it's just another way to screw more money out of the transaction, is too inaccurate, and charges too much. It's designed, perhaps, for bulk sellers of identical objects. It you're selling interesting collectable kind of stuff, e.g. cycle exotica, you need to use your own carriers.

After 20 years I got sick of being increasingly screwed over by them, and every new revision making it worse. Add in the time and energy a few rogue buyers cost you, & having to deal with the ammoral troop of monkeys in their 'customer disservice department', & it's just not worth it as a small time seller.
rogerzilla
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by rogerzilla »

oldmanpop wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 1:48pm Hi I've seen a bike I want on ebay. I contacted the seller for some info and all seems well. An hour after the initial contact I'm told he's pulling it off ebay because of silly offers. However he is still selling the bike and am l interested? I had another look on ebay before the ad was removed and one of the pics had his phone number on. As if saying contact me off ebay. How can I be sure it's not a rip off and a genuine sale? £1200 is a lot of money. I'm thinking walk away. Thanks
Probably didn't mean to enable offers. Common mistake - eBay often defaults to allow offers, with a stupidly low auto-decline amount.

If it's an auction rather than BIN, a buyer can block other buyers from making offers by placing a bid for the starting amount.
leftpoole
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by leftpoole »

oldmanpop wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 1:48pm Hi I've seen a bike I want on ebay. I contacted the seller for some info and all seems well. An hour after the initial contact I'm told he's pulling it off ebay because of silly offers. However he is still selling the bike and am l interested? I had another look on ebay before the ad was removed and one of the pics had his phone number on. As if saying contact me off ebay. How can I be sure it's not a rip off and a genuine sale? £1200 is a lot of money. I'm thinking walk away. Thanks
There are some sellers using Ebay who use Ebay to advertise and then, pull the listing to deprive Ebay of income and themselves from paying said income.
In my opinion I think it stinks! Everyone including Ebay needs to earn and using and abusing in the long term affects Ebay commision which will increase due to lack of income.
There is one seller who I know does this regularly. He buys stuff to show that he is a genuine member of Ebay but when selling bicycles (regularly) pulls and shows his Mobile phone number just as mentioned. He then proceeds to wait for calls and then sells at a supposedly lower price.
As I mentioned, it is my opinion that this is not only cheating, it could be called theft.
Ask a legal expert-not me!
leftpoole
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Re: Thoughts on this please

Post by leftpoole »

home wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 1:43am
gxaustin wrote: 28 Jun 2022, 2:13pmEbay charges are extortionate so I can understand his wanting to avoid them. On the other hand I bet stolen goods are sold via Ebay.
I have to agree that eBay charges are extortionate especially given, that unlike actually sellers, they don't have to hold any stock. When you compare the margins they make, versus the margins actual e-commerce retailers make (i.e. holding stock & paying for property, wages & insurance etc), it's obscene. What is it now since they brought in the new managed payment system, over 13%?

What makes it worse is that they then treat sellers as if they were employees with all sorts of targets & compliancy (e.g. despatch/delivery times), nagging & punishments like you worked for them. And then, as LancsGirl points out, 99.99999% they will automatically back the buyer in any dispute even when, or ESPECIALLY WHEN, the buyer is entirely in the fault. They're the boss even when you're not even an employee. There is a certain eBay Kung Fu to play the system when it goes wrong but I would never trust them, & a growing proportion of their buyers, with more valuable items.

For much of the time, especially on small items, you're not actually making money selling stuff. You're just converting the time it takes to sell the stuff into money, and the profit you make is just getting rid of your junk. Fine if you're no longer working, but they've even screwed that as now any sales goes through your bank account ... taking upto 5 working days to clear via their "management payment system". Last year they took all transaction payments in house to screw more money out of users, raised the percentage, delayed the payments, & obscured the invoicing system at the same time to make it more difficult for buyers and sellers to know who each other were.

Basically, they don't just want a commission of whatever you sell. They want to own your relationship with your buyer/seller in perpetuity.

Perhaps the poster above is right, it sucks now in comparison to what it was because too many chancers like this guy took advantage of it, screwing it for everyone else.

EBay does monitor messages for people trying to swop contact details & I know a guy who was blocked for trying to (even, typically, although he was entirely innocent). There's also at least one gang of fraudsters selling bogus items they don't have using precisely that MO, i.e. putting a mobile number in picture or ad.

To answer another question asked, if you actually hit the Buy It Now and then pay in cash in person/on collection, you're still covered by the eBay sales protection which is worth having. But buying through the site, means that the moment you do put in a "not as advertised" returns claims, the money you paid is frozen, so the seller is incentivised to deal with the matter. It's like an escrow.

But, if you go along with the buyer cheating the system, then you have no come back.

Auctions always used to be free for me (I think they give you 100 a month or something).

Also NEVER use their postage system, it's just another way to screw more money out of the transaction, is too inaccurate, and charges too much. It's designed, perhaps, for bulk sellers of identical objects. It you're selling interesting collectable kind of stuff, e.g. cycle exotica, you need to use your own carriers.

After 20 years I got sick of being increasingly screwed over by them, and every new revision making it worse. Add in the time and energy a few rogue buyers cost you, & having to deal with the ammoral troop of monkeys in their 'customer disservice department', & it's just not worth it as a small time seller.


The reason I say what I have written above, is because I have been buying and frequently selling for various reasons and not all cycling related for around 25 years.
The last time I sold was earlier this year. The buyer paid and the monet was in my Bank account same day. The account can be set by seller to either pay immediately, daily, weekly or monthly. Aimed at long time sellers obviously.
Commision is based on price sold. If one were to advertise in every paid for magazine in the country and worldwide, the item that you wish to sell, you would soon be out of pocket if not your mind!
Ebay has a WORLDWIDE captive audience. Pay the fees and sell.
a.twiddler
Posts: 347
Joined: 4 Jun 2009, 12:17am

Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by a.twiddler »

Unfortunately, what home wrote rings a bell for me. I have been using ebay for over 10 years and they have recently become a lot more controlling and expensive. Ebay and Paypal fees were not great before, but it was still worthwhile selling low cost items, and you had more control over the payment method. Now that ebay pays directly into your bank account, at their leisure, by the time they've taken their charge and postage it seems to me that there is little incentive left for the seller, particularly after faffing about with packaging. Although they encourage you to offer free postage, which I like to do if I can, you are almost compelled to charge for it in order to make a sale worthwhile.

I can imagine inexpensive items, if not useable by family members, friends or other cyclists, being binned which is not good for recycling or
making unusual parts available to a wider population. Like most people, I have accumulated a lot of stuff over the years which to many might be junk and to others a treasure.

You might suggest using Gumtree. I find the set up less than intuitive compared with ebay. Doesn't ebay also own Gumtree? How long before that goes the same way?

As a buyer, I've enjoyed ebay's buyer protection over the years, but I find I'm selling less these days.
gcogger
Posts: 113
Joined: 2 Jul 2020, 9:54am

Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by gcogger »

It all seems pretty simple to me. ebay provide a service, with published rules and fees.
  • If you accept the rules, and think the service is worth the fee, then sell on ebay.
  • If you don't accept the rules, or think the fees are too high, then don't sell on ebay.
What I don't think people should do is use the service but ignore the rules, and not pay the fees.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
What's that they say a bird in the hand..................

I am just about to buy yet another item off Bay brand-new.

Or I could go down the shop and spend £40 retail, or £80 direct to the firm by subs, or just buy for £11 off eBay.
Fully legal fully authorised fully functional software.

What's not to like,
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
home
Posts: 66
Joined: 9 Jun 2022, 7:15am

Re: Thoughts on this please

Post by home »

It's actually upto 6 WORKING days during which one is supposed to send the item out (without actually having received the money). "Working days means that if the purchase is made on Friday evening, the "days" don't start until Monday morning, meaning that you might not get the money until the next Friday. From eBay's own site.

Of course, it's a whole other discussion of why banks don't keep their computers working 7 days a week these days (figuratively speaking), instead of essentially shutting them down for the weekend.

I sold for 21 year, with 100% feedback, won more than a few disputes, dealt with a few scammers ... learned how to scam to scam back someone who scammed me (ha!) ... reported probably 100s of fraudulent cases. Sure, I know a little about how eBay works.

Just do a Google search for "management payments disasters", & get an idea

Screen Shot 2022-06-29 at 13.12.33.png
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 10:47amWhat's not to like,
Death of the high street? Disappearance of local hardware stores? Standing in post office queues full of moron who don't know how to label and address their "returned not as advertised" items? Clueless store people reply, "have you tried the internet?" when you try & buy a simple commodity? (e.g. try & find release oil in a real world hardware store these days).

I could go on and on too.
home
Posts: 66
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by home »

gcogger wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 10:37amIt all seems pretty simple to me. ebay provide a service, with published rules and fees.
Part of the problem is, they keep changing them, mostly to benefit themselves. It's a lock in situation, e.g. your business gets locked into selling via their monopoly, then they own you & start turning the screws on you/it.

Then, secondly, they don't follow them. Your business/transaction is entirely at the whim of a faceless teenage Filipino or Indian call centre wallah, with only basic English, getting paid zero & under the pressure to deal with x many cases per hour.

Have you sold much via the site?

I do agree, however, that it's bad form, not to pay the fees. It's equivalent to shop lifting, or buying something from a shoplifter. There's a list of ways people try & do it.
djnotts
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Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by djnotts »

I recently sold some parts on ebay for the first time for a couple of years. Never again. Although I did not use their postal method they took my estimated cost as if I had purchased the label. And charged the fees against the postage costs (which I had underestimated!) on all 3 sales. Money kept on hold in their account until could prove delivery, which meant I had to use more expensive service than the value of the items warranted.
I'd have sooner just given the parts to bike charity.
Ended up with less than min wage just against time to package and trip to PO.
I don't think they want private, occasional, sellers at all.
gcogger
Posts: 113
Joined: 2 Jul 2020, 9:54am

Re: eBay bike for sale pulled - Thoughts on this please

Post by gcogger »

home wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 1:32pm
gcogger wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 10:37amIt all seems pretty simple to me. ebay provide a service, with published rules and fees.
Part of the problem is, they keep changing them, mostly to benefit themselves. It's a lock in situation, e.g. your business gets locked into selling via their monopoly, then they own you & start turning the screws on you/it.

Then, secondly, they don't follow them. Your business/transaction is entirely at the whim of a faceless teenage Filipino or Indian call centre wallah, with only basic English, getting paid zero & under the pressure to deal with x many cases per hour.

Have you sold much via the site?

I do agree, however, that it's bad form, not to pay the fees. It's equivalent to shop lifting, or buying something from a shoplifter. There's a list of ways people try & do it.
Not sure why it's relevant, but I've sold a number of things, though clearly nowhere near what you have. I've had my share of trouble with bad buyers, and that factors in to whether I decide to sell on the platform.
I was fundamentally responding to the types of people that like to use ebay's services, but don't think they should pay the fees (like the seller this thread was originally discussing).
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