steel bikes, aluminium components

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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freiston
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by freiston »

Nearholmer wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 8:35pm But, folks, the OP isn’t asking “why steel frames?”, he’s asking “why aluminium wheels etc?”. I think.
Yup - I re-read it to make sure. seems like a lot of the replies are ignoring this in order to criticise or eschew the choice of steel for a frame.

imho, alloy wheel rims, as pointed out by others, outperform steel/chromed rims, especially for rim-braking but such wheels will usually have (stainless) steel spokes and hub parts. Alu alloy components such as seatposts, handlebars, stems, brakes, cranksets work well, tend to be good quality, can look good, are ubiquitous in the supply chain and can substantially reduce the weight of the bike but steel is often still used in some components, e.g. chain rings, cassettes. A decent steel frame, irrespective of whether you think it is an informed choice or not, will not be substantially lighter heavier* than an alu or carbon frame built for the same purpose/usage and it will not make an otherwise good bike a bad one.

In response to other replies, I have a steel touring frame but not in case I need to get it repaired by a blacksmith and I have no plans to go on any epic long tour, nor do I plan to take it overseas. I did see a picture on social media recently of a bloke on a (world?) tour who did have his steel frame repaired with steel bar welded to the chainstays near the BB.

*Edited - error correction
Last edited by freiston on 20 Jun 2022, 5:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cycle tramp
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by cycle tramp »

Ciminera wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 7:14pm I was thinking about the general preference in touring and adventure riding for steel bikes. I've heard some compelling reasons for this

however, those bikes still have aluminium wheels and handlebars, etc... what's the reasoning there?
...well, some of it is down to bicycle component history, some is down to personal preference, some is down to performance versus risk analysis and some of it is down to cost and parts availability...

Way back when Raleigh ruled the bicycle world, many of their adverts advised that they produced an all steel bicycle. Which was good and strong...
..and it was. However the steel wheel rims didn't stop very well in the wet and the chrome rusted or in very bad cases simply peeled off(and chroming steel isn't particularly pleasant for those who do it or for the environment). Indeed several cyclists deaths were blamed on rim brakes on steel rims in bad weather conditions..
..As such many cyclists looked towards alloy hubs, cranks, seat posts and handlebars... Alloy gave most cyclists two things they wanted, lighter weight components and they can be polished and shiny without the cyclists worrying about rust. In the case of wheel rims, they would also stop you better in light to moderately heavy rain.
However there were some sacrifices, alloy cranks could snap, alloy handlebars were more likely to fail, and rim brakes used on alloy wheel rims would in time wear them through and cause them to fail (often with a possibility of causing injury to the cyclist).
Many cyclists were happy to carry this risk, simply because they would probably purchase a new bicycle, and scrap the old one, before any of the above issues could occur.
Manufacturers also became more aware of the possible safety issues- handlebars were redesigned, wheel rims came with warning indicators and alloy cranks were over built. Thus lowering the chances of anything bad happening.
As more manufacturers turned to alloy, so there was less demand for really good steel parts, and thus steel cranks, steel handlebars would either be mass produced or if required to be of sufficient quality, produced at greater customer expense (you only have to see how expensive when you look at steel handlebars and axles for certain types of sprint cycle racing). In some cases, steel parts simply stopped being produced*.

As such producing a quality steel bicycle with quality steel parts mades the bicycle cost more and made the bicycle heavier, which in the days of road tests, made the bicycle less competitive when compared against similar models offered by other manufacturers.

Which is why many off the peg touring bicycles feature a large amount of alloy parts.
However if you have the cash, yes you can swap your alloy seat post, stem and handlebars for steel ones (as far as I know, there are no quality steel hubs or wheel rims** available, but I look forward to being wrong)

* if anyone sees any 559 size 36 hole wheel rims in stainless steel, for sale please let me know :-))
** if we accept that for many people disc brakes are their first and only braking choice then why not have a return of stronger and shinier (and heavier)) wheel rims for those who go off road
Last edited by cycle tramp on 20 Jun 2022, 4:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cycle tramp
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by cycle tramp »

Post script

How expensive are replacement steel parts for alloy parts? Earlier this year I purchased a very nice alloy lay back seat post, new for 30 pounds. Because I like my bike to carry heavy loads, I've bought a replacement steel cromo seat post from nitto, to be on the safe side, if the alloy seat post snaps..... the cromo seat post was 94 pounds (over 3 times as much as the alloy one). If you were a manufacturer you simply couldn't afford to fit that part as standard.
Again it's the same with stems. My 45 degree alloy stem at 120 mm was about 25 pounds. To get a steel stem made up, I'd be looking at paying a frame builder upwards of 120 pounds.
Steel handlebars are a bit different. I use steel handlebars from humpert, they are of good quality and less than 20 quid very well priced .. surly handlebars made from cromo steel again 50 to 70 quid depending on the model.

If you were selling a bicycle at retail cost of 700, that could be 10% of the bicycle's value on the handlebars alone.
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Sweep
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by Sweep »

Good point on steel handlebars mr tramp. Some of my converted old hybrids came with them. Noticeably heavy but don't see as an issue for a general or touring bike. Feel reassuring. Have known two folks who had alloy bars fail, one on a london bridge.
Thanks for the humpert plug - their stuff always seems very practical.
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cycle tramp
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by cycle tramp »

Sweep wrote: 20 Jun 2022, 7:48pm Good point on steel handlebars mr tramp. Some of my converted old hybrids came with them. Noticeably heavy but don't see as an issue for a general or touring bike. Feel reassuring. Have known two folks who had alloy bars fail, one on a london bridge.
Thanks for the humpert plug - their stuff always seems very practical.
Thanks for the positive comment. Its appreciated.

As a further post script, possibly the other reason for alloy parts on steel frames are lazy cycle journalists...
..there's nothing to stop a frame manufacturer making their own steel seat post, or handlebars or stem.. however if the bike was above a certain price point and because the steel part wouldn't be named from a boutique parts manufacturer (nitto, surly, and so on) that manufacturer would get a worse review, simply because they didn't use alloy (which is what the reviewer would be expecting).
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Biospace
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by Biospace »

Ciminera wrote: 19 Jun 2022, 7:14pm I was thinking about the general preference in touring and adventure riding for steel bikes. I've heard some compelling reasons for this

however, those bikes still have aluminium wheels and handlebars, etc... what's the reasoning there?
Is this cost related, fundamentally? When fabricated where environmental legislation is minimal, profit is likely greater. Also fashion and expectations, as mentioned above. I do prefer Al bars to steel for their damping properties when used with a good steel frame, I've never tried good steel bars on an Al frame.

The French were historically the masters of alloy accessories in the motoring world. Within the racing and rallying fraternities, light Al alloy wheels were originally the expensive option and were beautifully forged, which created the fashion which lasts to this day. Now, the universal, inexpensive car alloy wheel is typically heavier than its steel counterpart, hence the return of steel wheel rims for the keen - mainly to distinguish themselves as more concerned with dynamics and practicalities than fashion.
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Ciminera
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by Ciminera »

some interesting replies...

point that seemed to be mentioned a few times is about steel being able to take a hiding better... do wheels not take more of a battering than the frame?

brakes, fair... but now there's discs

the weld and keep moving thing... what if your handlebars snap in the middle of aforementioned patagonia? suppose you can makeshift a handlebar but still if steel has more give and resistance to breakage surely more comfortable and reliable

just musing... I've neither the knowledge or experience to advocate one over the other. I was just interested
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by home »

cycle tramp wrote: 20 Jun 2022, 4:23pmWay back when Raleigh ruled the bicycle world, many of their adverts advised that they produced an all steel bicycle.
At the time steel was the lighter, better option. Others were still using cast iron and wooden rims!

Ghisallo still makes the later ... if you want a set to go with your bamboo bike frame. They'll even do you a wooden handlebar.

Another downer about steel is it rusts, so it has to be painted or chromed (never seen many nickel only plated bikes but it's a nice finish). And then it still rusts through the pin holes only you don't see it until it's wrecked.

Bare alu alloy is lot easier and nice to refurb. Ask a yachtie about how much fun keeping wood in tip top condition is!

brighthandlebar_03-1030x687.jpg
djnotts
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by djnotts »

After a fellow CTC rider's ally bars recently simply snapped under normal, light, use .. I would choose steel if possible! Suffering from wrist and hand pain I also find quality steel bars more "comfortable" than ally.
Carbon frame with steel forks and bars please!
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freiston
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by freiston »

I reckon it must be 42 years ago that I regularly rode with a steel handlebar, and possible that I haven't used one since (but I can't rule it out). I've never had an alloy handlebar failure (yet) but back in the 90s I did have an alloy quill stem snap diagonally from below the clamp extension to inside the head tube - though this was due to hitting a high kerb full head on at excessive speed (I was taking a roundabout too fast - >30mph I reckon, when a car pulled onto the roundabout ahead of me [also at speed] but not enough ahead of me or fast enough for me to not take evasive action - I altered my course of right lean to straightening out/leftwards, in order to go behind the car instead of into it but couldn't get back on course to get round the roundabout).
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
scottg
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by scottg »

Steel stems are still somewhat common, steel handle bars are still available.
I've Lauterwasser pattern bar in steel, too flexy in alloy.
Haven't seen any new steel brakes, those went to alloy in the 1950s or earlier.
Alloy flexes poorly, excellent for brakes.

Rim brakes are best with alloy wheels, carbon wheel rim braking, got us road bikes with carbon rims.
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scottg
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Re: steel bikes, aluminium components

Post by scottg »

Steel stems are still somewhat common, steel handle bars are still available.
I've a Lauterwasser pattern bar in steel, too flexy in alloy.
Haven't seen any new steel brakes, those went to alloy in the 1950s or earlier.
Alloy flexes poorly, excellent for brakes.

Rim brakes are best with alloy wheels, carbon wheel rim braking, got us road bikes with carbon rims.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Deutsche Luftschiffahrts-AG
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