Best bike GPS system for pre-planned tour around UK

[Angstrom]

[snip]
I still don't understand why Garmin Connect software on the mobile phone (and on-line) is such a bloatware with so many useless things (health stuff, bages, contacts etc.), useful stuff hidden away (planned trips), yet so many obvious things missing. Like being able to configure the device with the help of a full UI on line or in App then send the configuration to the device.[snip]

There is a software truism something like,
"A end user only makes use of 5% of the features of a device,
unfortunately each user uses a different 5%"

I've been 30 years on in the software business so I've heard this "truism" before. It sounds great but it's totally false. Particularly in the mobile phone world (enterprise software is different).
We live in a world where users expect things to just work, never have to open a user manual. There are many examples of apps and software that have pushed incumbent bloated software in history books by looking at a user need and providing an alternative with an elegant, intuitive solution to the core needs of most users. If they wanted, they could and would make what most of their users would agree to be the core and do it very well.
The reason behind the Garmin bloatware is that their challenge is elsewhere: competition between Strava, Ride with GPS, Komoot and many others and the device manufacturers. They fear being pushed back in the role of a simple HW manufacturer providing data to the software guys who can monetise via a subscription model. The Garmin bloatware is there to provide an alternative to these other vendors and keep as many of their customers theirs only. What creates value for IT vendors today is the "stickiness" of their business model. A sticky BM means how hard and therefore likely it is that a customer errs away and jumps ship. Another word is "locked-in", but that is pejorative and not politically correct.
Garmin aims at creating an "ecosystem" in which once their customers dip a foot, they stay in for many years, either upgrading their devices every other year or pay a subscription every month/year. They believe providing all this data about health, sports activity etc. is the means to this end. They don't care that much about making their software user-friendly. As a matter fact, their users have invested at least 200€/£ in a device and for the most part won't change immediately (unlike software users) if their software is perceived to be user-unfriendly. They will eventually get it then be less likely to abandon it (once they're over the steep hill. The real value of Garmin Connect to Garmin is that it contributes to position the company to shareholders (or potential shareholders) as being a "sticky business" with some recurring revenue and therefore values with greater "multiples". The Garmins, Stravas, Ride with GPS, Komoots etc. collaborate out of necessity yet they are in reality in competition with each other. The criteria are number of Monthly Active Users (MAU), Customer Lifetime Value (CLV), Annual Recurring Revenue, ARR, etc. They want to make you use many device and use them all day long to collect lots of data, make you eventually subscribe to a paid service.

[scottg]

[snip stuff]

They don't care that much about making their software user-friendly. As a matter fact, their users have invested at least 200€/£ in a device and for the most part won't change immediately (unlike software users) if their software is perceived to be user-unfriendly. They will eventually get it then be less likely to abandon it (once they're over the steep hill.[snap]

So true, getting adult users to change is painful.

Seymour Papert noted that, Adults will put up with awful software to get a job done,
where children quickly abandon poorly designed systems.

Garmin bike gps, the device of a hundred niche markets.....
Garmin uses interns to code their bike devices, can't have interns working on avionics.

[Jdsk]

[snip]
I still don't understand why Garmin Connect software on the mobile phone (and on-line) is such a bloatware with so many useless things (health stuff, bages, contacts etc.), useful stuff hidden away (planned trips), yet so many obvious things missing. Like being able to configure the device with the help of a full UI on line or in App then send the configuration to the device.[snip]

There is a software truism something like,
"A end user only makes use of 5% of the features of a device,
unfortunately each user uses a different 5%"

I've been 30 years on in the software business so I've heard this "truism" before. It sounds great but it's totally false. Particularly in the mobile phone world (enterprise software is different).
We live in a world where users expect things to just work, never have to open a user manual. There are many examples of apps and software that have pushed incumbent bloated software in history books by looking at a user need and providing an alternative with an elegant, intuitive solution to the core needs of most users. If they wanted, they could and would make what most of their users would agree to be the core and do it very well.

The early years of smart 'phones were fascinating: designers were suddenly able to provide powerful functionality through minimal interfaces. I often use screen dumps from mobile apps when criticising complex traditional HCIs on bigger computer screens.

Jonathan

[Jamesh]

I've just brought a S/H Garmin edge touring and am quite disappointed tbh.

I tried to find two locations Clitheroe and verwood which are pertinent to me....

Neither come up when you search for them.

No where to put in postcodes either.....

The map is not detailed at all.

Have I brought a pup of a system.

Garmin satnav for cars of simalar era were fine I used them every day for work?!!

Disappointing for a birthday present!
.
Thanks in anticipation.

James

[Paulatic]

If you were expecting something similar to a car sat nav then you’re going to be disappointed.
I’ve had an Etrex, an Oregon, and a 500 every one of them failed to please and the way Garmin Connect made me keep rising through MS operating systems I’ll never forgive them.

[Jamesh]

Thanks!

I think I need a map SD card!

[sjs]

If you were expecting something similar to a car sat nav then you’re going to be disappointed.
I’ve had an Etrex, an Oregon, and a 500 every one of them failed to please and the way Garmin Connect made me keep rising through MS operating systems I’ll never forgive them.

I had an Oregon, which worked, more or less, and I managed never to use Garmin Connect. But it worked nowhere near as well as several phone apps, which is annoying

[scottg]

I've just brought a S/H Garmin edge touring and am quite disappointed tbh.

I tried to find two locations Clitheroe and verwood which are pertinent to me....[snip]

Had one of those, 80% time it follow a RWGPs route ok, 20% is would lose the Turn by turn prompts,
but leave a line on the map to follow. Put OSMap on your phone, in case you need to figure out
how to get back on route. The return start option did come in handy on loop routes, strangely
it worked, I was surprised.

More useful as moving map display, didn't load a route, just use it as a compass and to keep
track of road names, made following cue sheets or printed maps easy. Perfectly reliable
in that mode. And DYI battery replacement is fairly easy.

[Jdsk]

I've just brought a S/H Garmin edge touring and am quite disappointed tbh.

I tried to find two locations Clitheroe and verwood which are pertinent to me....

Neither come up when you search for them.

No where to put in postcodes either.....

The map is not detailed at all.

Have I brought a pup of a system.
...

I think I need a map SD card!

I think that you can probably get it to do what you want.

Let's take it one step at a time.

What maps does it have at present?

Jonathan

PS: Garmin online manual and support:
https://support.garmin.com/en-GB/?produ ... tab=topics#

PPS: Previous discussion: "Garmin Edge Touring and postcodes":
viewtopic.php?t=99230

[RickH]

Garmin have just released their latest GPS, the 1040 Solar which has (as the name suggests) solar recharging capability:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/06/gar ... eview.html

I tour with a dynamo hub/USB charger and a USB battery pack. The battery life of my current Edge 1000 is a bit less than a long touring day, but newer models last longer.

The solar charging of that 1040 Solar is impressive, but I don't think that it would change what I have to carry. So the extra cost would bring little or no benefit.

Jonathan

Of course the release of the 1040 should mean some good deals appearing for the 1030 Plus. The non solar 1040 may suit more folk especially with the move, finally, to USBC & faster charging it looks like you should be able to top up quicker - estimates are 1 hour of riding for 5 minutes of charging & 2 hours for a full charge.

I continue to be generally impressed by my 1030 Plus (coming from a 1000 previously).

Most recently I did a 76 mile ride following a "course" using mostly the mapping screen for the first 60 miles or so (also using an IQ data field that lets you have 6 different lots of data showing in the same space as the normal 1 or 2 field limit, + HR & cadence sensors running, backlight on auto, screen permanently on). I started from 100% battery and with a gap of around 2.5 hours visiting a friend en route plus a 40 minute train hop both with the screen turned off (quick press of the power button while recording stopped). At the end of the ride I still had 85% charge left. Total moving time was ~5 hours 12 minutes, elapsed time around 8 hours 30 minutes.

Another 75 miles in shorter chunks since then & the battery is still showing 55%. My working estimate before a ride is 5% charge per hour (although it is probably nearer 3 to 4% in practice), so I would reckon 55% means I'm still good for up to another 11 hours of riding before it is in need of recharging.

[Psamathe]

....
Of course the release of the 1040 should mean some good deals appearing for the 1030 Plus......

Only one I've seen so far is £425 (https://www.santafixie.co.uk/garmin-edg ... puter.html)

Ian

[Paulatic]

....
Of course the release of the 1040 should mean some good deals appearing for the 1030 Plus......

Only one I've seen so far is £425 (https://www.santafixie.co.uk/garmin-edg ... puter.html)

Ian

£400 very first result Wiggle or Chain Reaction

[Psamathe]

....
Of course the release of the 1040 should mean some good deals appearing for the 1030 Plus......

Only one I've seen so far is £425 (https://www.santafixie.co.uk/garmin-edg ... puter.html)

Ian

£400 very first result Wiggle or Chain Reaction

That must be recent as I looked only the other day (after the 1040 was released and available on Garmin's site). Maybe I was too quick starting my search - reason I broke the screen on my 1030 ages ago now and the brightness sensor is really iff'y (keeps switching bright/dark) probably made worse that I've phad to use a screen protector to stop getting glass splinters from the broken screen which also means it's not waterproof ... so I've been waiting to see what Garmin's plans have been for ages now before replacing (Garmin's swap-out repair make no warranties on the condition of the battery on your replacement and they can get "worn down" and have shorter life e.g. my 1030 now quite a few years old).

Ian

[Jamesh]

I'm just getting used to my Garmin.

It has three options for route choice:- distance, time and accent.

Which is the best for audax type rides - long swift rides?

Also I wish it had the option if distance to destination?

Can you modify the display at all?

It's a touring edge btw.

[Jdsk]

Also I wish it had the option if distance to destination?

Can you modify the display at all?

It has that data field available, and also distance to next waypoint:

Dist. to Dest.: The remaining distance to the final destination. You must be navigating for this data to appear.
Dist. to Next: The remaining distance to the next waypoint on the route. You must be navigating for this data to appear.

And you need to customise the screen of interest for that data field to be displayed: "Customizing the Trip Pages".

Owner's Manual:
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/Edge_Touring_OM_EN.pdf

Jonathan