Cycling using trains (in UK and EU)

[Pendodave]

Avanti's news item:

"Refurbished Pendolinos return to the rails as part of UK’s biggest ever train upgrade":
https://newsdesk.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/ ... in-upgrade

Jonathan

Unless I'm missing something, there's not much celebrating of the bike cupboard...

[Jdsk]

Avanti's news item:

"Refurbished Pendolinos return to the rails as part of UK’s biggest ever train upgrade":
https://newsdesk.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/ ... in-upgrade

Unless I'm missing something, there's not much celebrating of the bike cupboard...

I haven't yet seen either a mention or an image...

Jonathan

[Pendodave]

2 - is there any obligation to actually stick your wheel in these things?

I'm sure Pendodave will correct this if wrong, but from the photo, it looks like two bikes hung and two on the floor between them. Obligation or not, the space isn't going to fit four bikes unless it's used as designed.
I don't like it, four bikes get on and off at the same time and I'm sure the riders could work it out, as soon as you start adding or removing bikes along the way it's going to get awkward.

I may be missing something, but if used correctly this layout will facilitate getting a bike on and off without having to move the others about (which is definitely an issue with the free range cupboard). The existing system works fine if you all get on at Euston and work out who is getting off first, but that falls apart when other cyclists join later.
And some of us don't sit in coach A, but in coaches much further back, so we can't see people getting on and off en-route

[mjr]

As soon as I see one, I'll post some pictures.
Then duck!

I hope you don't feel that the fire is aimed at you, rather than the bad-decision-makers at the train operating company! I really do appreciate the pictures and information. If nothing else, at least more people will be expecting Avanti to be crap, rather than just turning up at a station to discover their not-a-featherlight-road-bike doesn't fit any more.

[mjr]

I may be missing something, but if used correctly this layout will facilitate getting a bike on and off without having to move the others about (which is definitely an issue with the free range cupboard).

I feel that you may be missing the difficulty in moving a bike directly backwards at a 30° or so offset to the wall. Bikes on the floor will tend to wobble as their handlebars turn and bikes from the hooks will naturally have their front wheel flop about, and both will suffer from any lateral movement of the train. It is almost certain that someone's drivetrain will bite someone else's bike (paintwork or saddle...) at some point.

[Sweep]

2 - is there any obligation to actually stick your wheel in these things?

I'm sure Pendodave will correct this if wrong, but from the photo, it looks like two bikes hung and two on the floor between them. Obligation or not, the space isn't going to fit four bikes unless it's used as designed.
I don't like it, four bikes get on and off at the same time and I'm sure the riders could work it out, as soon as you start adding or removing bikes along the way it's going to get awkward.

I may be missing something, but if used correctly this layout will facilitate getting a bike on and off without having to move the others about (which is definitely an issue with the free range cupboard). The existing system works fine if you all get on at Euston and work out who is getting off first, but that falls apart when other cyclists join later.
And some of us don't sit in coach A, but in coaches much further back, so we can't see people getting on and off en-route

In my experience cyclists sit near the bike cupboard - from memory front going north, rear going south. Signs say you have no access during trip but you do and this allows cyclists to sort things. Not sure why you would want to see the rest of the train - I just want to make sure that no-one is getting off with my bike/that I don't inconvenienec the exit of anyone with a bike getting off before me.

(info for folks wanting to get to Manchester from london without worrying about all this - you can get a london northwestern euston to hartford (change crewe) and cycle from Hartford to Manchester in about 3 hours - nice route.

[Pendodave]

My only bad on-train experience was when recently getting on at euston some avanti chap told me I would have to take my bags off and take them into the carriage, even if he had no idea whether anyone else was getting on. The woman at Manchester Picadilly told me he must have got out of bed the wrong side

I'm in danger off sounding like an apologist here, but the thing is...
It's probably only the train manager that has information about bike carriage, the platform staff almost certainly won't.
Even then, it's possible to book a bike up to 20 minutes before departure, so on leaving Euston the final complement may still be supplemented by late booked bikes en route.
The existing space is pretty tight for 4 bikes, and almost certainly not sufficient for an additional 4 sets of paniers.
The corridor in which the cupboard is situated is an access route between the crew door and the driver's cab, so if it is not kept clear the driver is perfectly within his/her rights to insist that bikes are removed. Which wouldn't help anyone.

Hmmm, have I become a Big Railway running dog??

[PH]

I may be missing something, but if used correctly this layout will facilitate getting a bike on and off without having to move the others about (which is definitely an issue with the free range cupboard).

Maybe I should reserve judgment till I've seen the space loaded with four bikes, or at least photos of that. However it looks to me like there won't be enough space to get alongside a bike hung in space C if there are bikes on the floor in B&D. I'm tall and reasonable fit, yet I still need to be alongside the bike to lift it clear of a hook.

[Pendodave]

I'm sure Pendodave will correct this if wrong, but from the photo, it looks like two bikes hung and two on the floor between them. Obligation or not, the space isn't going to fit four bikes unless it's used as designed.
I don't like it, four bikes get on and off at the same time and I'm sure the riders could work it out, as soon as you start adding or removing bikes along the way it's going to get awkward.

I may be missing something, but if used correctly this layout will facilitate getting a bike on and off without having to move the others about (which is definitely an issue with the free range cupboard). The existing system works fine if you all get on at Euston and work out who is getting off first, but that falls apart when other cyclists join later.
And some of us don't sit in coach A, but in coaches much further back, so we can't see people getting on and off en-route

In my experience cyclists sit near the bike cupboard - from memory front going north, rear going south. Signs say you have no access during trip but you do and this allows cyclists to sort things. Not sure why you would want to see the rest of the train - I just want to make sure that no-one is getting off with my bike/that I don't inconvenienec the exit of anyone with a bike getting off before me.

(info for folks wanting to get to Manchester from london without worrying about all this - you can get a london northwestern euston to hartford (change crewe) and cycle from Hartford to Manchester in about 3 hours - nice route.

Without wishing to labour the point, some of the coaches further back have bigger seats and free food and drink....
I was recently accosted by a cycle tourist (It definitely was, I saw his bike) who complained somewhat vehemently about the walk he was forced to make up to the front of the train and them back to his posh seat when loading at Euston.
I apologised for the absence of porters, and agreed that things are just not what they were back in the day...

[Sweep]

My only bad on-train experience was when recently getting on at euston some avanti chap told me I would have to take my bags off and take them into the carriage, even if he had no idea whether anyone else was getting on. The woman at Manchester Picadilly told me he must have got out of bed the wrong side

I'm in danger off sounding like an apologist here, but the thing is...
It's probably only the train manager that has information about bike carriage, the platform staff almost certainly won't.
Even then, it's possible to book a bike up to 20 minutes before departure, so on leaving Euston the final complement may still be supplemented by late booked bikes en route.
The existing space is pretty tight for 4 bikes, and almost certainly not sufficient for an additional 4 sets of paniers.
The corridor in which the cupboard is situated is an access route between the crew door and the driver's cab, so if it is not kept clear the driver is perfectly within his/her rights to insist that bikes are removed. Which wouldn't help anyone.

Hmmm, have I become a Big Railway running dog??

you sure you don't work for avanti PR marketing pendo?

Have never had any issues with a driver - in fact they have always been more than helpful.

Seem to recall that they have even popped out of the cab to help at Preston - drivers often change there I think. Which is handy.

Wouldn't dream of blocking the driver's exit - never have - even loaded with four bikes.

Platform staff usually great as well - particularly admired the composure of the staff at Preston recently when train massively delayed and I was concerned about last minute platform changes (there was one a couple of mins before departure) screwing my bike loading.

[Pendodave]

I may be missing something, but if used correctly this layout will facilitate getting a bike on and off without having to move the others about (which is definitely an issue with the free range cupboard).

Maybe I should reserve judgment till I've seen the space loaded with four bikes, or at least photos of that. However it looks to me like there won't be enough space to get alongside a bike hung in space C if there are bikes on the floor in B&D. I'm tall and reasonable fit, yet I still need to be alongside the bike to lift it clear of a hook.

Don't worry. I'm also reserving judgement until I've used them or spoken to passengers who have.
It was/is a working hypotheses!!
Sadly, there were no bikes on the 0720 Euston to Manchester this morning for me to test it.

[Sweep]

I may be missing something, but if used correctly this layout will facilitate getting a bike on and off without having to move the others about (which is definitely an issue with the free range cupboard). The existing system works fine if you all get on at Euston and work out who is getting off first, but that falls apart when other cyclists join later.
And some of us don't sit in coach A, but in coaches much further back, so we can't see people getting on and off en-route

In my experience cyclists sit near the bike cupboard - from memory front going north, rear going south. Signs say you have no access during trip but you do and this allows cyclists to sort things. Not sure why you would want to see the rest of the train - I just want to make sure that no-one is getting off with my bike/that I don't inconvenienec the exit of anyone with a bike getting off before me.

(info for folks wanting tseat is o get to Manchester from london without worrying about all this - you can get a london northwestern euston to hartford (change crewe) and cycle from Hartford to Manchester in about 3 hours - nice route.

Without wishing to labour the point, some of the coaches further back have bigger seats and free food and drink....
I was recently accosted by a cycle tourist (It definitely was, I saw his bike) who complained somewhat vehemently about the walk he was forced to make up to the front of the train and them back to his posh seat when loading at Euston.
I apologised for the absence of porters, and agreed that things are just not what they were back in the day...

side issue to be sure dave - i assume this was a first class bod.
More fool him - I'd rather sit near the bike - and in my experience even if your allocated seat is elsewhere there is no problem sitting there.
Free food?
No such thing as a free lunch.

[Pendodave]

you sure you don't work for avanti PR marketing pendo?

Have never had any issues with a driver - in fact they have always been more than helpful.

Seem to recall that they have even popped out of the cab to help at Preston - drivers often change there I think. Which is handy.

Haha!
I'm pleased that you have such a high opinion of drivers .
Although, we always swap over at Preston, so they're not really pleased to see you, they're keen to get a cup of tea!
Seriously (1) it is not the driver's job to deal with bikes, so please always chat to the TM to remind him that you have loaded a bike and where you want to get off.
Seriously (2) As railway and cyclist, I sometimes find that cyclists are not as helpful to themselves as they might be, or have unrealistic expectations. This may make me come across as a 5th columnist, but I try very hard to be even handed.

[Sweep]

you sure you don't work for avanti PR marketing pendo?

Have never had any issues with a driver - in fact they have always been more than helpful.

Seem to recall that they have even popped out of the cab to help at Preston - drivers often change there I think. Which is handy.

Haha!
I'm pleased that you have such a high opinion of drivers .
Although, we always swap over at Preston, so they're not really pleased to see you, they're keen to get a cup of tea!
Seriously (1) it is not the driver's job to deal with bikes, so please always chat to the TM to remind him that you have loaded a bike and where you want to get off.
Seriously (2) As railway and cyclist, I sometimes find that cyclists are not as helpful to themselves as they might be, or have unrealistic expectations. This may make me come across as a 5th columnist, but I try very hard to be even handed.

aha dave so you do work for avanti

Yep I do always seek out the train manager/captain/commissar - ever since I got stuck on a train at Euston with no way off.

thanks for your posts anyway - appreciate that you have to be careful about what you post.

i repeat that my experience of the on train/platform staff has pretty much always been great - not necessarily the management/marketing wonks - have just sent a complaint back to them for a proper reply on an issue going back to January when they very nearly buggered a journey of mine Manchester to Euston.

(they replied months later with a right load of waffle)

[RickH]

Haha!
I'm pleased that you have such a high opinion of drivers .
Although, we always swap over at Preston, so they're not really pleased to see you, they're keen to get a cup of tea!
Seriously (1) it is not the driver's job to deal with bikes, so please always chat to the TM to remind him that you have loaded a bike and where you want to get off.
Seriously (2) As railway and cyclist, I sometimes find that cyclists are not as helpful to themselves as they might be, or have unrealistic expectations. This may make me come across as a 5th columnist, but I try very hard to be even handed.

I quite often do the hop from Wigan to Warrington, & back later in the day.

Heading north is always reassuring if the driver indicates they are at least amenable to opening the door for us. The platform staff &/or the train manager may encounter a last minute issue that has delayed their arrival to the relevant end of the train - I have had the train manager appear & the driver stick their head out of the cab to check before the platform staff have got there.

Heading south I will usually head down to coach C to speak to the train manager but a few times recently the train has been so busy, combined with it only being a 10 minute hop, that it wasnt practical. The platform staff are usually good at phoning ahead so I've not ended up with an unexpected trip all the way to London (the train I usually get doesn't stop after Warrington).

You may not have the answer to this but...

One concern for me with the new layout is that, up to now, the Avanti Pendelinos have been the only trains that I know of that officially take Tandems (counting them as 2 bikes), even though I've not found problems taking them on other train services in the North West (I even managed to get my Circe Helios vertical enough on a Voyager on the North Wales lines to keep a particularly strict train manager happy). A tandem would only work if you ignored the racks & just used the current "pile them in" method, especially if there were other bikes too. And the rack potentially reduce the space for the current method.