More exciting ride wanted

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slowster
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Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by slowster »

mail@nickavery.com wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 9:40pm I ride in East Anglia, its actually Colchester so the local countryside rolls a bit. I'm looking at 22kmh on such a ride. In think for a 61yo I have quite a high power output, but obviously let down by the ratio.

I'm running marathon pluses, and there is a bit of me that is tempted to remove the rack, stand put marathon supremes on and see what happens.

The unused gears are 1-11 on a 24 gear bike. I have only ever used the small chainring by accident.
Given what you have now told us, I think you are right to focus first on experimenting with your existing bike. It will also give you insight into what genuinely makes a significant difference to the ride and to your speed/efficiency, so that if at some point you decide to get a new bike, you will have a better idea of what works (for you) and what you want.

With Marathon Pluses, a stand and rack, it sounds like you have a fairly heavy and sluggish touring bike set up, and it may be that there are other things which posters could suggest if we knew more about your bike, so I recommend that you post a photograph or two of your bike.

I think Marathon Supremes would be a good choice, but it might be that you could 'push the envelope' a bit further, especially since the Supremes are relatively high priced tyres. If you could buy Marathon Supremes in 32mm width for, say, £20-£25, they would be a no brainer, but they typically cost ~£34 or more each. At that price point there may be other tyres which would be an even better choice

Firstly therefore, confirm what your internal rim width is (the information will be available online, or just tell us the model of rim), which determines what tyre widths you can use. Secondly, check what tyres and especially widths your mates are using, especially those who are a similar weight to you. If they are happily rolling on 28mm tyres, that would suggest you could do likewise, and 28mm is the largest width in which most high performance fast road tyres are available.

With regard to gearing, how do find the spread of those gears that you actually use? Do you find the intervals to be:

1. Too large? i.e. the choice is often between pushing a gear that is too high for comfort or spinning in a gear that feels too low for comfort.

2. Too small? If you make double shifts when there are relatively small changes in gradient or speed, that can be a good indication that the gaps are too small.

3. About right? If so, it is useful to examine the ratios and see for yourself what it is about them that suits you. For example, I don't mind 3 tooth intervals in the middle of a cassette for riding off road or at a very relaxed touring pace on the road, but the gaps are uncomfortably large if I want to pick up my speed a bit on the road. I know therefore that for mainly road riding on a lightly laden touring bike, I want a cassette with 2 tooth intervals across the middle of the cassette.

If you find the gaps too large or too small, tell us what cassette you have.
axel_knutt
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Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by axel_knutt »

mail@nickavery.com wrote: 29 Jun 2022, 9:40pmI ride in East Anglia, its actually Colchester so the local countryside rolls a bit. I'm looking at 22kmh on such a ride. In think for a 61yo I have quite a high power output, but obviously let down by the ratio.
I'm down the road in Braintree.
At 51, on a Horizon 2kg lighter than yours, I was averaging 18km/h locally and 13km/h on long distance tours in hill areas, so I don't think you're doing too bad. My 3x9 gears cover 18" - 110", and they all got used, but top ones a lot less. Who's this new bike supposed to excite, you or your mates?
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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foxyrider
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Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by foxyrider »

PH wrote: 1 Jul 2022, 12:01pm
foxyrider wrote: 30 Jun 2022, 4:10pm It wouldn't be too difficult to pretty much halve that and 8kg is a big lump of weight!
Weren't you in the bike trade? Would you really put a 106kg rider on an 8kg bike?
I might not personally think that it was a great idea but by the number of riders i see riding top end CF bikes who are clearly not racing whippets or even St Bernards, who am i to deny them? FWIW, IME if the wheels are looked after there's nothing else i'd be overly concerned about, my CF road bike which weighs in at 7.5kg takes 85ish kg of me on bad roads, gravel, bridleways, its been loaded for cc touring through the Alps and even done some stuff verging on mountain bike territory, all on 23c tyres. Maybe not ideal for all the jobs but its done them without too much arguing. (I do have several bikes sp i wouldn't pick the CF for off tarmac but sometimes you take a turn and the lane on the map is a sheep path across a hillside!)

I wasn't thinking that the OP needed or even wanted what i have, there are plenty of nice hybrid/sports bikes with specs that put them certainly under 10kg whilst being more robust than an out and out road bike.

Being in the trade you quickly learn to temper your advice, you do actually want the punter to buy from you! If you tell a larger rider (or anyone for that matter) that bike X is wrong for them and thats the bike they like, all that will happen is they'll go elsewhere 'where the staff are better'. Some people walk into the store with a set idea and just won't budge, they likely do the same with anything they buy from 'branded' goods to the grocery shop. My all time best sell up was drom a puncture kit to a new £900 bike (when 900 smackers got you a really good bike!)
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Jamesh
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Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by Jamesh »

Why not upgrade the wheels?

Something less that 1800gms will really speed up a bike over 2500gm bog standard pairs.

Or aero if in a flat area??
mattsccm
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Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by mattsccm »

Anything much lighter will feel nicer. Yes it would be cheaper to ditch the weight from you but the bike still feels heavy.
Dump the surplus from the bike and stick some better tyres on and it will help but you still have that bike and a slinky light one will always give a nicer ride.
Any tyre with Marathon in the name is going to be fairly horrible to ride compared with the really light and supple things.It's just that some Marathons are less horrible than others. Swap to something like a 27mm Challenge tubeless spec open tubular and see what I mean.
pwa
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Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by pwa »

mattsccm wrote: 2 Jul 2022, 7:41am Anything much lighter will feel nicer. Yes it would be cheaper to ditch the weight from you but the bike still feels heavy.
Dump the surplus from the bike and stick some better tyres on and it will help but you still have that bike and a slinky light one will always give a nicer ride.
Any tyre with Marathon in the name is going to be fairly horrible to ride compared with the really light and supple things.It's just that some Marathons are less horrible than others. Swap to something like a 27mm Challenge tubeless spec open tubular and see what I mean.
I think you are a bit unfair to marathon Supremes there. Yes, they are not as swift as a full-on performance tyre. But they are also significantly swifter and more comfortable than normal Marathons. If you want to be a bit faster but still retain some of the practicality of touring tyres, Supremes are great. They are the tyres I put on my tourer because I don't like the heavier Marathons. The OP has been riding on Marathon Pluses! Putting Supremes on will make the bike feel a lot nicer on coarse road surfaces and thus enable faster cycling. A harsh ride makes you ease off. A plush ride encourages effort. I think swapping Pluses for Supremes will be swapping night for day.
mail@nickavery.com
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Joined: 9 Jun 2021, 1:36pm

Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by mail@nickavery.com »

I'm loving all the advice, progess to date is that I've just bought some 32 mm tyres, they feel better. My rims are dc19 s so 28mm is pushing it. I've done a PB of 25.4kmh on my reference run, but the gains were on the hills, which is more likely to be fitness related. I think I've got enough speed and endurance to do local social club rides, especially as I did a fpt test the day before on an erg bike, and could feel it . I use my bike for shopping and commuting, so the racks will stay
Bice
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Joined: 18 May 2020, 7:33pm

Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by Bice »

mail@nickavery.com wrote: 10 Jul 2022, 11:29am I'm loving all the advice, progess to date is that I've just bought some 32 mm tyres, they feel better. My rims are dc19 s so 28mm is pushing it. I've done a PB of 25.4kmh on my reference run, but the gains were on the hills, which is more likely to be fitness related. I think I've got enough speed and endurance to do local social club rides, especially as I did a fpt test the day before on an erg bike, and could feel it . I use my bike for shopping and commuting, so the racks will stay
I rode heavy commuter bikes for years - still do, as I want strong, load-bearing, not-tempting-to-steal bikes in London - but got a modern (alloy and carbon fork) road bike after testing one out and was blown away. (Then decided I much preferred the feel of really light steel, but that is another story.)

Why not do the same? Or hire something you like the look of? Frankly, a 10-speed alloy and carbon fork bike (second-hand maybe £400) would feel transformative compared with what you have. I am amazed it mounts up to 16kgs, however. Even my gash MTB Marin tourer with Sputnik wheels comes in around 14kg.
Daily: Carlton Courette 1982 mixte 42, 32, 22 x7
Van Nicholas Yukon titanium 50/34 10sp
Lazzaretti steel 1996 10sp 48/34
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mig
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Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by mig »

strange observation but i do find it to be true.

one of my stable is a fixed frame from SJS Cycles c.1998. A post box red, basic frame made from tange cromoly tubing. it has some weird features but it rides really, really well. the bike appeared in their advert in the comic for quite a while. The rear wheel is an 32H MA3 shod with an old marathon 28c HS308. the front a drc rim with a continental GP4 in 28c. i did change the 'bars a few years ago as i had doubts about corrosion on the originals and found the new deda ones did make it feels more planted on the road. the hubs are kept nicely greased, the tyres pumped reasonably but nothing about it approaches more than cheap to average kit.....possibly a mid level sugino crank acquired second hand a few years ago.

but.....it just 'goes'....there's something about it that suits me. something about it that picks up well and maintains speed over bog standard, broken roads. not to say that i'd like to climb an alpine pass on it but....

does anyone else find the same - that they can just make a certain bike 'go' well for some, subjective, reason? and it is therefore an 'exciting' ride without having to buy an expensive machine?
Jamesh
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Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by Jamesh »

mig wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 10:19pm strange observation but i do find it to be true.

one of my stable is a fixed frame from SJS Cycles c.1998. A post box red, basic frame made from tange cromoly tubing. it has some weird features but it rides really, really well. the bike appeared in their advert in the comic for quite a while. The rear wheel is an 32H MA3 shod with an old marathon 28c HS308. the front a drc rim with a continental GP4 in 28c. i did change the 'bars a few years ago as i had doubts about corrosion on the originals and found the new deda ones did make it feels more planted on the road. the hubs are kept nicely greased, the tyres pumped reasonably but nothing about it approaches more than cheap to average kit.....possibly a mid level sugino crank acquired second hand a few years ago.

but.....it just 'goes'....there's something about it that suits me. something about it that picks up well and maintains speed over bog standard, broken roads. not to say that i'd like to climb an alpine pass on it but....

does anyone else find the same - that they can just make a certain bike 'go' well for some, subjective, reason? and it is therefore an 'exciting' ride without having to buy an expensive machine?
Yeap my old Cannondale six carbon bike.

Pasted by the press when it was launched but it's been a brilliant audax bike done C2C and lejog, hoping to do Bradford to Bournemouth return this summer.

Fits well, solid and dependable not twitchy!!

Standard mod so isn't as brittle as high mid, paint like radiators so takes abuse.

Only down side is 25mm max wheels.

Perhaps a synapse Evo might be a good replacement??
slowster
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Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by slowster »

mig wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 10:19pm basic frame made from tange cromoly tubing
It might be a better specification frame than it appears to be. There has been the odd thread in the past where Brucey and others have reported finding that a frame used better tubing than was advertised. Brands will sometimes deliberately not advertise just how high a quality a product is, especially if it is part of a short production run and/or might undermine sales of other more profitable lines.

I think that back in the day this was likely to occur if a manufacturer had a surplus of better materials to use up, e.g. using some 531 tubes in a nominally 501 tubed frame. Nowadays with contract manufacturing I think it is more likely to occur when a relatively small and agile company, like maybe SJS or Spa, is able to buy a batch of high quality frames from their suppliers at a knock down price because the original customer for the frames did not complete the purchase.
mig
Posts: 2702
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by mig »

Jamesh wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 11:56pm
mig wrote: 13 Jul 2022, 10:19pm strange observation but i do find it to be true.

one of my stable is a fixed frame from SJS Cycles c.1998. A post box red, basic frame made from tange cromoly tubing. it has some weird features but it rides really, really well. the bike appeared in their advert in the comic for quite a while. The rear wheel is an 32H MA3 shod with an old marathon 28c HS308. the front a drc rim with a continental GP4 in 28c. i did change the 'bars a few years ago as i had doubts about corrosion on the originals and found the new deda ones did make it feels more planted on the road. the hubs are kept nicely greased, the tyres pumped reasonably but nothing about it approaches more than cheap to average kit.....possibly a mid level sugino crank acquired second hand a few years ago.

but.....it just 'goes'....there's something about it that suits me. something about it that picks up well and maintains speed over bog standard, broken roads. not to say that i'd like to climb an alpine pass on it but....

does anyone else find the same - that they can just make a certain bike 'go' well for some, subjective, reason? and it is therefore an 'exciting' ride without having to buy an expensive machine?
Yeap my old Cannondale six carbon bike.

Pasted by the press when it was launched but it's been a brilliant audax bike done C2C and lejog, hoping to do Bradford to Bournemouth return this summer.

Fits well, solid and dependable not twitchy!!

Standard mod so isn't as brittle as high mid, paint like radiators so takes abuse.

Only down side is 25mm max wheels.

Perhaps a synapse Evo might be a good replacement??
blimey yeah those wheels are tiny..!! :wink:
mail@nickavery.com
Posts: 23
Joined: 9 Jun 2021, 1:36pm

Re: More exciting ride wanted

Post by mail@nickavery.com »

Lol - any speed gains from new tyres where eliminated by the time I spent in hospital after forgetting I had changed my tyres. I got Panracer 32c s, didn't want to buy to the 28 limit of my rims. They are definitely faster, I reckoned they were good for about 1kmh, but very skittish on poor surfaces, say no more. Still not sure how they will feel above 50kph on a descent. However, nothing is making as much difference as gym work, you can push yourself so much harder, more safely, on a gym bike with an erg.
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