Jeremy Vine video of lorry close passing a police cyclist

[Pebble]

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Nothing wrong with the wagon, our lifestyles demand vast amount of goods being easily accessible. The issue is with the uncaring driving of the wagon. When the driver seen the group of incompetent cyclists he should have hung back.

How was the driver to know the cyclists were incompetent? If any assumptions are to be made I'd expect a Police cyclist on a Police bike wearing Hi-Viz plastered with "Police" could be assumed to be a competent cyclist.

Whilst it is reasonable for a driver to give a clearly "unsteady" cyclist more than enough room I would question about drivers and cyclists basing how they drive/ride on their assessment of the competence of the other vehicle driver/rider. Very little information in a very brief time cannot give any reasonable assessment of competence.


Ian

For me a large group of cyclists together is a recipe for disaster, it just needs one to hit a pothole and wobble into another and that could be someone going under your trailer, I would have been like the first HGV driver in the video in giving them a wide berth, and if I couldn't do that for oncoming traffic I would have hung back. And the fact that he chose to squeeze past them when some of the cyclists were clearly police officers beggars belief, I would gave him an extra 3 points for utter stupidity.

I think you have to weigh up every other vehicle and evry other situation you encounter on the road as best as you can, if you are driving a wagon you could very easily kill someone else and if you are a cyclist you could very easily be killed - it's a serious business.

[wjhall]

Fairly simple, the lorry was too close, white lines or no white lines, in fact at one point seems to be over the line, so failure of lane discipline as well. Most drivers of large vehicles, in fact most drivers, seem to be aware of this and will move over, lines or no lines. On the Portway in Bristol you will see drivers moving right to keep clear of cyclists on the shared pavement.

So the original sinner is Waitrose, who are sending the largest size of lorry down roads where they do not fit. It does seem to fill more of the lane than the builders merchant's lorry that does move out. Waitrose should be invited to reconsider their statement that everything their driver did was correct, lanes are not railway lines and drivers must take account of what other people do not what anyone else thinks they should do. Their trailer does seem to have a valance, which mitigates the risk of tumbling under the rear wheels, but it is possible to fit lorries with valances halfway down the wheels.

That said, a cycle lane of that width is really only suitable for single file traffic, slightly left of centre, cycling two abreast puts one cyclist in the gutter and the other against the lane line. Other cyclists please note, some of most the startling close passes I get are from other cyclists who think a narrow cycle lane makes hurtling past about 200 mm away acceptable.

[AlanD]

If anyone passes me too close, I immediately follow-up their action with a movement intended to show that they were too close:
With right hand facing upwards and outwards, I quickly extend right arm to the right in a 'pushing' action and then immediately bring it back in again. Repeat several times. Even if the offending driver does not check mirror and misses the gesture, the following driver does get the message and normally gives plenty of space. For which they get the 'thumbs-up'

[mjr]

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That said, a cycle lane of that width is really only suitable for single file traffic, slightly left of centre, cycling two abreast puts one cyclist in the gutter and the other against the lane line.

It's not a cycle lane. It's a general traffic lane on Great Eastern Street in central London, if anyone wants to check it out. They're cycling westwards.

[awavey]

roughly about here would you say ? https://goo.gl/maps/FRZtLRFpkbnkBsff9

it doesnt look wide enough for a truck like they had to hold a lane by itself comfortably to give either oncoming traffic or adjacent lane traffic enough room.

[mjr]

roughly about here would you say ? https://goo.gl/maps/FRZtLRFpkbnkBsff9

it doesnt look wide enough for a truck like they had to hold a lane by itself comfortably to give either oncoming traffic or adjacent lane traffic enough room.

Yes, about there. The tube trains on the roof are visible in the video about 12 seconds in.

Narrow lanes. Lorries must straddle so should wait to pass. It's a 20 mph limit so would cost seconds and save lives.

[Tangled Metal]

Is there a difference between professional road users and amateur? By that I mean those with a relevant higher level of training? Examples are obviously police drivers, having drivers and PSV drivers. While legislation applies to all is there a non-legal expectation that higher training warrants higher expectations for their driving?

If you think it does then the hgv driver should have been better behaved when driving the hgv than he was. The police officer I bet has had higher level driving training but cycle training? Aiui there is higher level cycle training for cycle based officers but I wonder if running a road safety campaign senior officer would have higher level cycle training.

Just curious as to whether people factor in training to their views? I've met enough hgv and psv drivers to know they have better awareness than most base level trained drivers and are often safer in the majority. They do have a vested interest in being a clean driver for livelihood reasons. So IMHO the driver in this instance should have been better than he was regarding passing cyclists.

[wjhall]

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That said, a cycle lane of that width is really only suitable for single file traffic, slightly left of centre, cycling two abreast puts one cyclist in the gutter and the other against the lane line.

It's not a cycle lane. It's a general traffic lane on Great Eastern Street in central London, if anyone wants to check it out. They're cycling westwards.

In that case somehat surprising that it is so narrow, but delete 'cycle' and the comment about single file riding in the 'lane' still applies.

[Dingdong]

Too close is too close and that's that

[Airsporter1st]

Too close is too close and that's that

In which case the driver of every vehicle that passed within 1.5m of the cyclists should all be prosecuted.

[jimster99]

I have some sympathy for both sides here. The lorry did get too close and should in a perfect world should have held back.

However, he was in a separate lane and normally you are fine to go past vehicles in the lane next to you. It must be a nightmare driving a massive lorry around the narrow clogged streets of London especially as a salaried driver under pressure to avoid delays.

If it was my decision, I'd send an advisory letter to the driver saying "don't do it again".

[Jamesh]

This is the sergeant who is riding alongside Jeremy Vine at the beginning of the video. During the first 16 seconds when he is in shot, he makes not one, but four shoulder checks:

1 second -
SC1.png

5 seconds -
SC2.png

8 seconds -
SC3.png

12 seconds -
SC4.png

He is looking at the builder's lorry and judging whether there is enough space for him to stay next to Vine when the lorry comes alongside. The sergeant makes several checks to ensure that the lorry is staying well over to the right of its lane and that the gap is staying large enough.

The view now pans to the rear, and you can see Jeremy Vine is in the middle of the lane, and the sergeant is probably closer to the edge of the lane than the rest of the riders.
R1.png

Incidentally, it's pure speculation but I wonder if the sergeant was Jeremy Vine's unofficial minder (or one of them) for that ride. Jeremy Vine has posted videos online of a number of incidents involving him and other road users, which inevitably attract media attention due to his high profile. If the Met Cycle Safety Team did designate one or more riders to shepherd Jeremy Vine, that showed good planning and foresight.

Really good analysis imho.

The police officer 2nd in outside position was the most to blame.

1.5m should apply to single lanes, if double lane then the cyclist should ride in middle of the lane and thus 1.5m from larger vehicles. Overtaking can be done when the outside lane is clear.