Is there something about kids' bodies that they need no second though spared when it comes to bicycle ergonomics?!
Does no one do a scaled down, kid's size, alloy, north road style handlebar or some riser bars?
What's wrong with the bicycle industry? It's almost as if kid's bikes were designed (apart from being dirt cheap in every department) to put them off cycling as much as possible, with inappropriate sizes of EVERYTHING, and straight, painted, mild steel tubes for handlebars. Not helped, of course, by not being properly sized, e.g. once you drop below 5' everything, INCLUDING handlebars, appears to be measured by wheel size! 14", 16", 20" etc.
Essential lore suggest "ideal" handlebar width are as wide as the upward bone sticking out of our shoulders which on mine, as a full-sized adult, are somewhere about the 420/440mm width. Try and find any kids' handlebars that narrow, let alone narrower. It seems like 480 to 550mm are the norm & kids wobbling along with the equivalent of oversized, beach cruiser bars. Then try & find any that aren't elbows & wrists twisted out. I've got a choice of 1 or 2 worldwide so far but basically no rises, no turn ins.
Frog seem to do a few for their bikes but still basic and with 26mm centres. I'm looking for 25.4mm. Ditto Alpina, but only in steel & around the 510mm width. Hollandbike also do a few, if you can cope with EU shipping (& UK taxing).
I suppose one could also question why their 22mm OD is the same as that for adult males too?
Yes, I've read a few more rants about the lack of quality & design in kids' and small adults' bikes. Given how many POS catalogue bikes I see chucked out on the side of the road, we really need a culture shift on all this.
Here's hoping mums being priced out of doing a petrol based school run in the near future will mean more kids having to ride, & lead to better bikes ...
[/rant]
Children's bicycle handlebars
Children's bicycle handlebars
Last edited by home on 5 Jul 2022, 12:30pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tangled Metal
- Posts: 9509
- Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
Good, well researched and specified rant.
That said your have to remember kids do something adults don't do, grow! Often quite quickly in spurts. Ever bought a kid trousers only to wake up not long afterwards to realise they're half mast on him?
Having said that there are many BSOs for kids. I especially dislike the ones with painted rims. I mean on the braking surface! Why?
There's a few good brands trying to size things up proportionately. Frog, Island and squish are but three. The issue is non-keen cyclists are buying the bikes for their kids. Often with just colour and image based decisions from their kids. This often means an mtb for general use.
We have always bought hybrids with hybrid and mtb tyres from Frog. They cope with Everything he does from mtb trails to road touring when loaded up. Bars are fairly narrow but more to the point he's not stretching wide when he gets it and it's not too small when we replace it for the next size.
We change bikes sooner than most I think. Despite that he's gone from slightly oversized bike to slightly undersized bike. That's the issue, growth and longevity of bike fit. You can't afford to put good kit on or overspec a kids bike of you've got to change it so quickly.
The other thing is kids have fewer issues with bike fit I reckon. Not a discerning as a keen cycling adult. Heck I'm not either. If I'm comfortable enough to ride what I want to then it's good enough.
That said your have to remember kids do something adults don't do, grow! Often quite quickly in spurts. Ever bought a kid trousers only to wake up not long afterwards to realise they're half mast on him?
Having said that there are many BSOs for kids. I especially dislike the ones with painted rims. I mean on the braking surface! Why?
There's a few good brands trying to size things up proportionately. Frog, Island and squish are but three. The issue is non-keen cyclists are buying the bikes for their kids. Often with just colour and image based decisions from their kids. This often means an mtb for general use.
We have always bought hybrids with hybrid and mtb tyres from Frog. They cope with Everything he does from mtb trails to road touring when loaded up. Bars are fairly narrow but more to the point he's not stretching wide when he gets it and it's not too small when we replace it for the next size.
We change bikes sooner than most I think. Despite that he's gone from slightly oversized bike to slightly undersized bike. That's the issue, growth and longevity of bike fit. You can't afford to put good kit on or overspec a kids bike of you've got to change it so quickly.
The other thing is kids have fewer issues with bike fit I reckon. Not a discerning as a keen cycling adult. Heck I'm not either. If I'm comfortable enough to ride what I want to then it's good enough.
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
Islabikes have always been pretty good with component size.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0405/ ... 1655988654
But I don't think you can buy bars etc off them without buying the rest of the bike. Their flat bars only go down to 480, but flat bars are normally wider than drops for the same rider. If, as an adult, you take 420 drops you will need flats that are a good bit wider because your hands adopt a wider stance on flats. Your idea of bar width being the same as across the shoulder width is for drop bars. Flat bars should be a bit wider for comfort. So 480mm flats are quite small. Equivalent to something like 350 drops. And you can carefully reduce the width further yourself, of course.
I agree that most kids' bikes have long been made of rubbish, but that may be because parents don't generally expect to pay much for them. Very few parents will change components like handlebars either, so there will not be much in the shops if you try doing that. Kids outgrow their bikes every 18 months or so.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0405/ ... 1655988654
But I don't think you can buy bars etc off them without buying the rest of the bike. Their flat bars only go down to 480, but flat bars are normally wider than drops for the same rider. If, as an adult, you take 420 drops you will need flats that are a good bit wider because your hands adopt a wider stance on flats. Your idea of bar width being the same as across the shoulder width is for drop bars. Flat bars should be a bit wider for comfort. So 480mm flats are quite small. Equivalent to something like 350 drops. And you can carefully reduce the width further yourself, of course.
I agree that most kids' bikes have long been made of rubbish, but that may be because parents don't generally expect to pay much for them. Very few parents will change components like handlebars either, so there will not be much in the shops if you try doing that. Kids outgrow their bikes every 18 months or so.
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
I removed a few cms off both handlebar ends of my grandsons bike using a hacksaw. 
biggest issue was adjusting the brake levers to fit his hands. I had to ditch the sprung noodle on the front V brake and fit a standard one.
biggest issue was adjusting the brake levers to fit his hands. I had to ditch the sprung noodle on the front V brake and fit a standard one. At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway X2, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 
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Nearholmer
- Posts: 4013
- Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
Frog bikes seem to overcome most of the objections cited, and a tube cutter can deal with excess bar width, but TBH I never resorted to that, because of the ever-sprouting point made above.
What has happened is the acquisition of a fleet of four bikes, which has proven just (only just) enough spread to get son (and shortly daughter) from learning to adult frame size, and is now performing the same function for two nephews, and the grandson of a friend. Looked at that way, in terms of “pass down”, it is looking like less than one bike per child, and they will all be fit for more users even after that.
But, that’s a view from somebody who is ‘into bikes’, and willing and able to invest in a fleet over time, and I understand that most parents aren’t, and many can’t, so the market serves what people want and can afford.
I’m not convinced it’s harmful to kids though, especially thinking back to the deeply secondhand and superficially unsuitable bikes myself and my bro’s had as kids, when any could be afforded at all. We live in a ‘high cycling’ area, and oodles of kids cycle to primary school, building up their muscles by using heavy mini-MTB made from steel.
What has happened is the acquisition of a fleet of four bikes, which has proven just (only just) enough spread to get son (and shortly daughter) from learning to adult frame size, and is now performing the same function for two nephews, and the grandson of a friend. Looked at that way, in terms of “pass down”, it is looking like less than one bike per child, and they will all be fit for more users even after that.
But, that’s a view from somebody who is ‘into bikes’, and willing and able to invest in a fleet over time, and I understand that most parents aren’t, and many can’t, so the market serves what people want and can afford.
I’m not convinced it’s harmful to kids though, especially thinking back to the deeply secondhand and superficially unsuitable bikes myself and my bro’s had as kids, when any could be afforded at all. We live in a ‘high cycling’ area, and oodles of kids cycle to primary school, building up their muscles by using heavy mini-MTB made from steel.
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
Somebody gave me a rather beat-up Islabike for my granddaughter.
I bought from Islabikes brake levers and grips to replace the damaged ones, so I would expect to be able to buy all the bits from them.
HOWEVER, Islabike handlebars are smaller diameter than adult ones, so you would have to shim an "adult" size stem, and either replace or shim brake levers, and replace grips.
Most people won't remember, but there was a whole range of "junior" size parts....junior freewheels had 2 pawls both engaged, so they "clonked" as you rode along. I think junior cranks fitted a smaller diameter bracket axle, cottered of course, and junior pedals had half inch threads, not nine sixteenths....that size survives as "BMX" to fit those awful Ashtabula cranks.
Decent kids bikes are a casualty of the buy now pay later, chuck it away if it gets a puncture society. There are people who don't mend tubes!
I bought from Islabikes brake levers and grips to replace the damaged ones, so I would expect to be able to buy all the bits from them.
HOWEVER, Islabike handlebars are smaller diameter than adult ones, so you would have to shim an "adult" size stem, and either replace or shim brake levers, and replace grips.
Most people won't remember, but there was a whole range of "junior" size parts....junior freewheels had 2 pawls both engaged, so they "clonked" as you rode along. I think junior cranks fitted a smaller diameter bracket axle, cottered of course, and junior pedals had half inch threads, not nine sixteenths....that size survives as "BMX" to fit those awful Ashtabula cranks.
Decent kids bikes are a casualty of the buy now pay later, chuck it away if it gets a puncture society. There are people who don't mend tubes!
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bike-set-up-2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
Thanks for the replies/commiseration.
Yes, to the above. I think BS (British Standard) used to kids' sizing but was lost to globalization. The second part of the rant would aimed at the Chinese Communist Plot not just to a) destroy Western Capitalist manufacturing base, b) drain it of all expendable wealth by selling us back commercial analogues (that loosely look like the real thing but aren't and need regularly replacing after one use) ...
& now c) to disfigure our children along the lines of traditional foot binding ...
Hopefully, perhaps just, poverty and austerity might fix the throwaway culture. Big hope, sadly. It'll probably just mean even more junk. Yes, I am amazed by how heavy cheap kids' bikes, right up to 24" wheelers, despite them tinier & weaker to push.
I've got to this it, and bad ergonomics, does put "average" kids off, perhaps even going on to explain part of the reason you don't see so many girls/women riding (have anecdotal evidence from own family).
I've got to think it's at least as bad as badly sized shoes.
Yes, to the drop bar width comment, above. Pull backs and North Roads, I still haven't found.
I'm fixing up a 2-plus tagalong trike and the bars it came with for, I think for 6 year olds up, were the same width as I use and I'm a 42/44" chest, i.e. 560mm Norths. The pictures of kids I've seen on them clearly have their arms in places they couldn't pull well on.
And lastly, yes, I'm thinking of stocking up on the few vintage "boys" sports bikes you see come up on the usual sites.
I think it is an issue shops at least should address. The material waste of it along is obscene. I've tried scrapping a few for spare parts but there's really little to nothing in them worth re-using.
Yes, to the above. I think BS (British Standard) used to kids' sizing but was lost to globalization. The second part of the rant would aimed at the Chinese Communist Plot not just to a) destroy Western Capitalist manufacturing base, b) drain it of all expendable wealth by selling us back commercial analogues (that loosely look like the real thing but aren't and need regularly replacing after one use) ...
& now c) to disfigure our children along the lines of traditional foot binding ...
Hopefully, perhaps just, poverty and austerity might fix the throwaway culture. Big hope, sadly. It'll probably just mean even more junk. Yes, I am amazed by how heavy cheap kids' bikes, right up to 24" wheelers, despite them tinier & weaker to push.
I've got to this it, and bad ergonomics, does put "average" kids off, perhaps even going on to explain part of the reason you don't see so many girls/women riding (have anecdotal evidence from own family).
I've got to think it's at least as bad as badly sized shoes.
Yes, to the drop bar width comment, above. Pull backs and North Roads, I still haven't found.
I'm fixing up a 2-plus tagalong trike and the bars it came with for, I think for 6 year olds up, were the same width as I use and I'm a 42/44" chest, i.e. 560mm Norths. The pictures of kids I've seen on them clearly have their arms in places they couldn't pull well on.
And lastly, yes, I'm thinking of stocking up on the few vintage "boys" sports bikes you see come up on the usual sites.
I think it is an issue shops at least should address. The material waste of it along is obscene. I've tried scrapping a few for spare parts but there's really little to nothing in them worth re-using.
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
As an adjunct to that. A local (dodgy) bike shop clarified for me why so many bikes around our way have single wheels stolen.
It's not just because they're easy. It's because as they get older they STILL can't fix a puncture, so they just steal someone else's wheel. They may have a bike but not tyre levers and glue, nor the morals to stop them.
Or another, entire hourly hire bike.
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
There are people who sell bikes which have been out of use over winter/longer and have a soft tyre, so assume puncture and sell on. In reality there's no puncture at all, but finding a bike pump and then the right connector is clearly too much trouble for a whole generation of people whose idea of problem solving is rebooting (that's to say, switching off then on again) some electronics.
The smallest spot of rust is too much for many in this era of cheap aluminium - light surface rust on headset bearing cups or V brake noodles is more than enough reason to 'upgrade'.
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
And, of course, if they buy themselves a cheap set of Chinese, use once, Poundshop "bike tools", they going to be cursing it even further, in double time.
Just as an aside, for anyone trying to fix this problem, the often excellent Bankrupt_Bike_Parts on eBay often come up with useful and interesting parts.
But, again, there doesn't seem to be any pull back kids 'bars.
You would have thought, in these CNC days, there'd be a machine that could spit out bespoke handlebars of any width & bend. Just type in the numbers, & out it comes.
I've never had much luck hacksawing bars. Difficult to get straight, impossible to get a nice chamfer without a lathe, & doesn't really help with something like North Road bars because the bit you inevitably want to narrow, is the bit in the middle, not ends of the bars.
Just as an aside, for anyone trying to fix this problem, the often excellent Bankrupt_Bike_Parts on eBay often come up with useful and interesting parts.
But, again, there doesn't seem to be any pull back kids 'bars.
You would have thought, in these CNC days, there'd be a machine that could spit out bespoke handlebars of any width & bend. Just type in the numbers, & out it comes.
I've never had much luck hacksawing bars. Difficult to get straight, impossible to get a nice chamfer without a lathe, & doesn't really help with something like North Road bars because the bit you inevitably want to narrow, is the bit in the middle, not ends of the bars.
- Are there guidelines or a table for which heights = which widths?
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
Hup do a range of drop handlebars in kid's sizes. Also flat bars.
https://kidsracing.co.uk/products/hup-3 ... ross-bikes
https://kidsracing.co.uk/products/hup-3 ... ross-bikes
Re: Children's bicycle handlebars
Thanks but, see, their flat bars are still 600mm wide.
I found a pair of 3" risers in alloy at 420mm from China. Short of chasing after every kid in the street with a tape measure, which is bound to come across wrong, I've gambled on them as an unhappy compromise
Not much of a pull back though. I'd really like mini-North Road bars. These are more like Bromptom bars. Straight bars just aren't ergonomic for any age. I just don't think they are designed with kids in mind. It's either style, or cheapness.
I found a pair of 3" risers in alloy at 420mm from China. Short of chasing after every kid in the street with a tape measure, which is bound to come across wrong, I've gambled on them as an unhappy compromise
Not much of a pull back though. I'd really like mini-North Road bars. These are more like Bromptom bars. Straight bars just aren't ergonomic for any age. I just don't think they are designed with kids in mind. It's either style, or cheapness.