I have for some time been considering converting my bike (Marin Palisades) to an E-Bike, the reason for this is because of my failing health and not being able to ride very far without getting extremely breathless!
Up until a couple of years ago, I really enjoyed going out for short local rides, a bit of shopping, and riding to and from my allotment, but because of my health, this had to stop, over the last few months I keep looking at my bike in the garage and wish I could get it out to go riding again.
Now having done a bit of research on the Internet, I'm getting more and more interested in the possibility of converting my bike to an E-Bike, but the burning question I have is 'Is the answer to my prayers' or would it be the case that this is an expensive project with no benefit?
Any thoughts people!
Regards
Chris
Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
Welcome.
I'd expect it to extend your range and help you get up hills.
Do you have the opportunity to try one before buying the bits?
Jonathan
I'd expect it to extend your range and help you get up hills.
Do you have the opportunity to try one before buying the bits?
Jonathan
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
It could be the answer to your prayers, especially if breathlessness is related to exertion.
Out of curiousity, I tried three different used ebikes a few years ago and found them all good and although 'bike fit', was at times cycling for local, heavy shopping (8 miles, uphill drag home) when otherwise I'd have used a car, due to lack of time/energy.
I tried -
Front hub motor, torque-sensor Raleigh (German)
Rear hub motor, torque-sensor Giant
Mid-motor, cadence-sensor Whoosh
I found -
Torque sensing is superb compared with cadence sensing - the feel of bionic legs rather than trying to control a bolt-on motor
Front hub motor worked best overall (distribution of mass and power, no extra stress for rear wheel)
Mid-mounted motor did not give the anticipated benefits of geared power, just excess chain and cassette wear
Generic components give 90%+ of the performance at a fraction of the cost, plus there's a knowledgeable person on the end of the phone if you buy through a UK specialist with a good reputation.
Electric assistance isn't cheating, it just keeps you moving more quickly when otherwise a strong headwind or gradient would slow things.
A cheaper ebike may have a decent battery, controller and motor, but frame and components won't be so good. A suitable, quality 90s MTB plus kit seems ideal. Strong wheels, forks and frame, but light and good to ride.
Out of curiousity, I tried three different used ebikes a few years ago and found them all good and although 'bike fit', was at times cycling for local, heavy shopping (8 miles, uphill drag home) when otherwise I'd have used a car, due to lack of time/energy.
I tried -
Front hub motor, torque-sensor Raleigh (German)
Rear hub motor, torque-sensor Giant
Mid-motor, cadence-sensor Whoosh
I found -
Torque sensing is superb compared with cadence sensing - the feel of bionic legs rather than trying to control a bolt-on motor
Front hub motor worked best overall (distribution of mass and power, no extra stress for rear wheel)
Mid-mounted motor did not give the anticipated benefits of geared power, just excess chain and cassette wear
Generic components give 90%+ of the performance at a fraction of the cost, plus there's a knowledgeable person on the end of the phone if you buy through a UK specialist with a good reputation.
Electric assistance isn't cheating, it just keeps you moving more quickly when otherwise a strong headwind or gradient would slow things.
A cheaper ebike may have a decent battery, controller and motor, but frame and components won't be so good. A suitable, quality 90s MTB plus kit seems ideal. Strong wheels, forks and frame, but light and good to ride.
Last edited by Biospace on 5 Jul 2022, 4:58pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
It needn't be that expensive and discovering if it's the right thing for you is a benefit in itself.
You are the only one who can answer the question, many people have discovered having an e-bike brings them much pleasure. Others try them and discover they don't, try and buy from one of these, you may find it cheaper than a conversion and if it's not for you then you'll probably get most of your money back (Which might not be the case with a kit.)
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
I think you'll probably love it, and your main worry will be why didn't you do it sooner. Do try out a few if you can.
I agree that torque sensor kits are more intuitive than cadence sensor ones. Candance sensor ones have the big advantage that you can 'ghost pedal'. As long as you have the energy to keep the pedals turning you don't need to apply any work on them and the motor will still keep you going. You may well find that really helpful when you go out on a slightly more strenuous ride than you intended.
I'd suggest a kit from Woosh (https://wooshbikes.co.uk/). Excellent customer support, reasonable prices (not the very cheapest), and mostly reliable generic kit that will be easy to repair and cheap to replace if necessary.
If you go for a new bike get a step-through, you'll be glad of it soon even if not now.
I agree that torque sensor kits are more intuitive than cadence sensor ones. Candance sensor ones have the big advantage that you can 'ghost pedal'. As long as you have the energy to keep the pedals turning you don't need to apply any work on them and the motor will still keep you going. You may well find that really helpful when you go out on a slightly more strenuous ride than you intended.
I'd suggest a kit from Woosh (https://wooshbikes.co.uk/). Excellent customer support, reasonable prices (not the very cheapest), and mostly reliable generic kit that will be easy to repair and cheap to replace if necessary.
If you go for a new bike get a step-through, you'll be glad of it soon even if not now.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
I agree with stodd's comments.
I added a 'Woosh' rear hub kit to both my tandem and to a solo bike. From my experience, Woosh are a company I would recommend. Like many who turn to e-bikes, health issues were the primary driver. My kits use cadence sensing, which can initially feel a bit like riding a motor-bike, but you very quickly adapt to the sensation. The motor supplies power up to a chosen speed setting (5 levels) and adds more 'oomph' as your own effort reduces or the hill steepens / headwind increases.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I have used both converted bikes far more than would have been the case if they were not electrically assisted. I still get some exercise, but no longer arrive a the top of a climb drenched in sweat with smoke coming from my pulse monitor!
My kit is 48 volt with a 12 Ah battery which is good for at least 40 miles with assistance level usually set at level 2. It has sufficient power to take our tandem up any hill we have encountered. We still put in a fair bit of effort, but the motor makes a huge difference.
The 'Pedelecs' forum will give you a considerable amount of information on e-bikes in general and conversion kits in particular.
I added a 'Woosh' rear hub kit to both my tandem and to a solo bike. From my experience, Woosh are a company I would recommend. Like many who turn to e-bikes, health issues were the primary driver. My kits use cadence sensing, which can initially feel a bit like riding a motor-bike, but you very quickly adapt to the sensation. The motor supplies power up to a chosen speed setting (5 levels) and adds more 'oomph' as your own effort reduces or the hill steepens / headwind increases.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I have used both converted bikes far more than would have been the case if they were not electrically assisted. I still get some exercise, but no longer arrive a the top of a climb drenched in sweat with smoke coming from my pulse monitor!
My kit is 48 volt with a 12 Ah battery which is good for at least 40 miles with assistance level usually set at level 2. It has sufficient power to take our tandem up any hill we have encountered. We still put in a fair bit of effort, but the motor makes a huge difference.
The 'Pedelecs' forum will give you a considerable amount of information on e-bikes in general and conversion kits in particular.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
For what my opinion's worth, I think it is a great idea.
Practically any cardio-respiratory condition benefits from mild or moderate exercise. You are likely to feel better. Your exercise capacity will improve and everyday activity will be a bit easier. Discuss it with your physician, but he/she is likely to encourage you. There is research that shows e-bike riders exercise more, but at a more moderate intensity, than comparable riders on bio-bikes. This is exactly what you need.
And you'll still be out cycling.
Practically any cardio-respiratory condition benefits from mild or moderate exercise. You are likely to feel better. Your exercise capacity will improve and everyday activity will be a bit easier. Discuss it with your physician, but he/she is likely to encourage you. There is research that shows e-bike riders exercise more, but at a more moderate intensity, than comparable riders on bio-bikes. This is exactly what you need.
And you'll still be out cycling.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
A big thanks to each and every one of you for your input here, a little bit more thinking to do, but probably more importantly, I'll see if I can get some try rides done that will be the real test.
Thanks again!
Regards
Chris
Thanks again!
Regards
Chris
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
In my limited experience I would say go for it.
My reasons for doing so aren't all that different to yours. Following a stroke 3-4 years ago my overall health has been declining. The stroke took all my fitness and as a result, I cycled less which in turn made me even more unfit. Things got really bad last year and I pretty much hung up my cycling clogs.
When visiting my dad earlier this year I had a go on his ebike. Ooooooh it was brilliant.
Got home, borrowed some money and after some research, bought a Bafang mid drive kit. 250w with a 36v 20ah battery. The bike now weighs about the same as a small tank but it'll climb almost anything within reason.
For the last 2 weeks my love of cycling has returned. No more diabetic hypos and no more puking my guts at the top of hills. So far in testing its limits, I've done over 50 miles on a single charge and that's with not being especially fiscal on the battery and motor. I've really wrangled every last watt out of it on some stupidly steep climbs.
I bought the mid drive kit as I expect to go touring with it. I need the range. For your needs, that might be a bit overkill so I think a front hub kit might suit you although I've never tried one. Dads is a purpose built rear hub driven ebike.
I was a convert after trying out dear old dads and I think you would benefit from trying one out first.
My reasons for doing so aren't all that different to yours. Following a stroke 3-4 years ago my overall health has been declining. The stroke took all my fitness and as a result, I cycled less which in turn made me even more unfit. Things got really bad last year and I pretty much hung up my cycling clogs.
When visiting my dad earlier this year I had a go on his ebike. Ooooooh it was brilliant.
Got home, borrowed some money and after some research, bought a Bafang mid drive kit. 250w with a 36v 20ah battery. The bike now weighs about the same as a small tank but it'll climb almost anything within reason.
For the last 2 weeks my love of cycling has returned. No more diabetic hypos and no more puking my guts at the top of hills. So far in testing its limits, I've done over 50 miles on a single charge and that's with not being especially fiscal on the battery and motor. I've really wrangled every last watt out of it on some stupidly steep climbs.
I bought the mid drive kit as I expect to go touring with it. I need the range. For your needs, that might be a bit overkill so I think a front hub kit might suit you although I've never tried one. Dads is a purpose built rear hub driven ebike.
I was a convert after trying out dear old dads and I think you would benefit from trying one out first.
Bill
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
Do report back how you get on. I very much hope and think it will be to say how good your ebike experience is; but if it is not good for any reason then your feedback will be even more valuable.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
I think you'll find it a big help. I've converted a bike with a rear wheel kit but turned down the assist speed to 18kph which means it only assists on hills, while on the flat all the work comes from me.
I bought the hub, controller, display, sensors as a package from China (arrived within 2 weeks), built the wheel myself and bought a battery from a UK supplier (rather than a slow boat from China).
The benefit of this over a Whoosh kit, which many have recommended, is that you have full control to adjust the controller settings (eg, I have configured mine with the reduced cut off speed, plus a slow start, which means the power feeds in gradually when pulling away rather than a sudden surge. A Whoosh kit (I think) comes with a Lishui controller that is locked down to avoid you changing settings, to avoid them having to deal with problems caused by users altering settings.
Unless you intend to do a lot of very hilly riding, or off road mountain biking I would suggest a hub motor would be better and easier to fit.
Wheel hubs come in different types. You will want a small geared hub, as these are better for torque and low speeds. Large direct drive hubs are good for high speeds, which will be above the 25kph legal limit in the UK. Hubs are also wound for different max RPM. for a 26" or bigger wheel you'll want something wound for 200-220RPM. This will allow 25kph max assist but also be efficient down to about 12-15kph. for smaller wheels you need higher RPM to achieve the 25kph assist.
A couple of people have recommended torque sensors over cadence. I thought I wanted a torque sensor when I built my conversion, but couldn't find a torque sensor hub kit. You can get 2 types of cadence sensor though... a speed controller or a current controller. Speed control is very crude and just provides maximum power up to the cutoff speed (which may vary by PAS level you have set). Current control varies current by PAS level, meaning you can choose the power output. This feels more natural than speed control, although I suspect not as natural as a torque sensor would.
Using the bike the way I do, I can ride comfortably up slopes of 15%+ when on max power whilst keeping the speed up to 8-9mph to keep efficient motor use. Because I only use it for hills, I find measuring range in terms of miles is a bit meaningless. On a flatish ride I could get well over 100miles from my 13 Ah battery. I find it better to think in terms of distance climbed. My battery will allow about 1800m of climbing using the motor to keep a sensible speed.
One other thing to consider is weight distribution. Because of the geometry of my bike I have rear hub and rear rack battery. It's fine when riding but makes the bike very tail heavy to lift. If you opt for a rear hub, then you should try for a frame mount battery within the triangle. If a front hub then a rack battery might balance it well.
Finally, the bike I converted had a front 28/38/48 triple with 11-32 cassette. After a couple of months I realised that I never used the 28T and since I don't bother pushing hard downhill I didn't need the full 48/11 combo either. I've swapped to a 42T narrow/wide single chainring with chainguard and find it is plenty for all I need plus has the advantage of allowing me to ride in long walking trousers without worrying about getting the hem caught in the chain.
I bought the hub, controller, display, sensors as a package from China (arrived within 2 weeks), built the wheel myself and bought a battery from a UK supplier (rather than a slow boat from China).
The benefit of this over a Whoosh kit, which many have recommended, is that you have full control to adjust the controller settings (eg, I have configured mine with the reduced cut off speed, plus a slow start, which means the power feeds in gradually when pulling away rather than a sudden surge. A Whoosh kit (I think) comes with a Lishui controller that is locked down to avoid you changing settings, to avoid them having to deal with problems caused by users altering settings.
Unless you intend to do a lot of very hilly riding, or off road mountain biking I would suggest a hub motor would be better and easier to fit.
Wheel hubs come in different types. You will want a small geared hub, as these are better for torque and low speeds. Large direct drive hubs are good for high speeds, which will be above the 25kph legal limit in the UK. Hubs are also wound for different max RPM. for a 26" or bigger wheel you'll want something wound for 200-220RPM. This will allow 25kph max assist but also be efficient down to about 12-15kph. for smaller wheels you need higher RPM to achieve the 25kph assist.
A couple of people have recommended torque sensors over cadence. I thought I wanted a torque sensor when I built my conversion, but couldn't find a torque sensor hub kit. You can get 2 types of cadence sensor though... a speed controller or a current controller. Speed control is very crude and just provides maximum power up to the cutoff speed (which may vary by PAS level you have set). Current control varies current by PAS level, meaning you can choose the power output. This feels more natural than speed control, although I suspect not as natural as a torque sensor would.
Using the bike the way I do, I can ride comfortably up slopes of 15%+ when on max power whilst keeping the speed up to 8-9mph to keep efficient motor use. Because I only use it for hills, I find measuring range in terms of miles is a bit meaningless. On a flatish ride I could get well over 100miles from my 13 Ah battery. I find it better to think in terms of distance climbed. My battery will allow about 1800m of climbing using the motor to keep a sensible speed.
One other thing to consider is weight distribution. Because of the geometry of my bike I have rear hub and rear rack battery. It's fine when riding but makes the bike very tail heavy to lift. If you opt for a rear hub, then you should try for a frame mount battery within the triangle. If a front hub then a rack battery might balance it well.
Finally, the bike I converted had a front 28/38/48 triple with 11-32 cassette. After a couple of months I realised that I never used the 28T and since I don't bother pushing hard downhill I didn't need the full 48/11 combo either. I've swapped to a 42T narrow/wide single chainring with chainguard and find it is plenty for all I need plus has the advantage of allowing me to ride in long walking trousers without worrying about getting the hem caught in the chain.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
I see Whoosh do offer a TS kit now, https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?tskit which means replacing the cranks and rings with what comes in the kit. Batteries also seem to be mainly downtube fixtures, preferable to being on the rear rack (I had a few moments when cornering where there was a scattering of grit on the road with rear motors - a combination of power not coming off quickly enough with cadence sensor and centre of mass higher and further back than usual).
I wasn't sure if it was ok to recommend a supplier on this forum, I echo what others have said about Whoosh. The benefits of having a knowledgeable person on the end of the phone offering advice as to what would suit an individual best are very welcome, I'd have thought, for anyone not sure of what to buy, similarly with any small troubleshooting.
I wasn't sure if it was ok to recommend a supplier on this forum, I echo what others have said about Whoosh. The benefits of having a knowledgeable person on the end of the phone offering advice as to what would suit an individual best are very welcome, I'd have thought, for anyone not sure of what to buy, similarly with any small troubleshooting.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
I'd recommend checking this. I think this is an old web page that google throws up. You can't navigate to it from their home page, I think it's not currently available.Biospace wrote: ↑6 Jul 2022, 3:20pm I see Whoosh do offer a TS kit now, https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?tskit.............
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?tsdz2 is a TSDZ2 torque sensor kit, but a crank motor not hub.
Torque sensor is commoner on crank drive and cadence sensor on hub drive (both for kits and bikes), but there are plenty of exceptions.
Torque sensor is commoner on crank drive and cadence sensor on hub drive (both for kits and bikes), but there are plenty of exceptions.
Re: Is an E-Bike the answer for me?
A word of caution about conversions, you either have to be happy with putting rivnuts in your downtube, or be comfortable with a top heavy rack battery solution, or with small capacity bottle cage or handlebar bag batteries. And be mechanically confident of course.