Recommend a winter sleepmat

[Sweep]

Planning ahead
(Camped out late last december and was pushing it i think)
Within reason, weight not too much of an issue - anything that can be carried on a bike rack.
Not interested in uber light uber expensive things which i distrust anyway on durability issues - my winter trips will probably be 3 days max probably so can live with a bit of weight.
Looking for something that will be good down to minus 3 - below that will stay at home.

[Jdsk]

In order to save time... what do you think of whatever is the modern version of a classic Therm-a-rest?

Jonathan

[Sweep]

In order to save time... what do you think of whatever is the modern version of a classic Therm-a-rest?

Jonathan

Well tell me what that is?
I repeat not interested in uber light uber expensive.
I have a classic thermarest (and another more modern thin one i would not use in winter)- i used it in the december camp i referred to.
I found it lacking, even with something underneath, tho can't complain, prob wasn't designed for those conditions.
Have no brand loyalty/preconceptions.
No reason why it has to be thermarest.

[jimlews]

How about your classic Thermarest with a closed cell foam mat underneath.
Available from Halfords & Army Navy stores for not very much money.
A couple of broad elastic bands to hold them together.
Or place the closed cell foam under your groundsheet.

[Sweep]

How about your classic Thermarest with a closed cell foam mat underneath.

I did that on the colder (approx zero) night with a cheap Z-fold karrimor mat.
Wasn't enough, though I was using a Mountain Equipment sleeping bag that had maybe suffered from age.

[PH]

I have a classic thermarest (and another more modern thin one i would not use in winter)- i used it in the december camp i referred to.

Building on jimlews theme - Can these two be used together?
If you're buying new, you can generally trust the R value, apparently it's a simple and reliable test, anything over 6 should be OK for winter use, I don't know how high they go, I've seen a couple advertised as 9. I have ab Alpkit Dozer, though I don't winter camp and I've only used it car camping. It's 2kg and fairly bulky, has an R value of 6.8 and Alpkit claim it's as comfortable as your bed at home, I wouldn't go that far, but it is very plush. It's typical Alpkit price and also typically not in stock, though it might be before winter.
By contrast, my Sea to Summit mat is the same size, less than half the weight, four times the price, and an R value of 4.5. That;s still pretty good, I think my standard Thermarest was about 3.

[Jdsk]

In order to save time... what do you think of whatever is the modern version of a classic Therm-a-rest?

Well tell me what that is?
...

Lots of data and experiences in this thread, including discussion of NeoAirs:
"Inflatable Sleeping Mats":
viewtopic.php?p=1592305#p1592305

Jonathan

[Sweep]

In order to save time... what do you think of whatever is the modern version of a classic Therm-a-rest?

Well tell me what that is?
...

Lots of data and experiences in this thread, including discussion of NeoAirs:
"Inflatable Sleeping Mats":
viewtopic.php?p=1592305#p1592305

Jonathan

I thought I made it pretty clear in my initial question that I wasn't interested in the likes of the NeoAir.
Just scanned that thread - not specifically on winter camping.
Feel free to suggest something.

[mxg01]

Given your constraints I think you are looking at something like the Alpkit Dirtbag or Dozer. I have the older Dirtbag XL which I've used for winter camping and it's perfectly fine, both thick and wide. They would seem to be the two criteria for winter. The seam eventually parted near the valve but I've fixed it and it's as good as new. Those mats are fairly bulky and hefty but the weight isn't really too much of a concern for bike camping. The bulk might be, but they are not like a 1970's air mattress, so you should manage.

The Dozer is 7.5cm thick and paired with a decent sleeping bag will see you comfy well below zero.

[Sweep]

Given your constraints I think you are looking at something like the Alpkit Dirtbag or Dozer. I have the older Dirtbag XL which I've used for winter camping and it's perfectly fine, both thick and wide. They would seem to be the two criteria for winter. The seam eventually parted near the valve but I've fixed it and it's as good as new. Those mats are fairly bulky and hefty but the weight isn't really too much of a concern for bike camping. The bulk might be, but they are not like a 1970's air mattress, so you should manage.

The Dozer is 7.5cm thick and paired with a decent sleeping bag will see you comfy well below zero.

thanks mx for the real-life experience - was kinda thinking of the dirtbag but when I popped into Alpkit Kingston they had none in for me to test.
Will bear in mind.
Does your dirtbag fold in half lenghtwise before rolling? Have a vague memory (maybe mistaken) of seeing one rolled full width which looked a bit much though would keep cars away from me.
This looks kind of interesting but I think it's too new to have had much in the way of real reviews/use.
I think its a new series from Robens.
https://www.outdooraction.co.uk/robens- ... ress-p6074

[mxg01]

Yes, you can fold it in half lengthways before rolling it. I've done that before. I think it would fit in an Ortlieb front roller when rolled this way. I've also just rolled it up, this is better for fitting into a backpack. If you are strapping it to a rack, folding first makes sense.

One thing to note is that flat mats like the Dozer and Dirtbag are fairly easy to fix if they puncture. It's easier getting a patch to stick to a flat surface, rather than a curved surface.

I've just looked back at my emails. I bought the Dirtbag XL in 2015, it's had a fair bit of use since then but it's a bit niche to use for every trip.

[PH]

Given your constraints I think you are looking at something like the Alpkit Dirtbag or Dozer.

As posted upthread I have a Dozer, I've also slept on a Dirtbag while visiting friends (Just on the lounge floor, so no camping experience, let alone winter)
They are very different, Dirtbag is half the weight and half the R value (3.5 V's 6.8 ) That's down to the same rating as a standard Thermarest. We're all different, but I'm certainly not warm enough on such a mat, even on some Spring or Autumn nights. Dirtbag is certainly a comfortable mat, but I think warmth wise it isn't going to be much of an improvement on what Sweep already has.

[PH]

One thing to note is that flat mats like the Dozer and Dirtbag are fairly easy to fix if they puncture. It's easier getting a patch to stick to a flat surface, rather than a curved surface.

Also, all is not lost if they puncture in the night! You've still got the foam, which is more than you have with an inflatable.
Even with the issues I like inflatables for the warmth and comfort which for the size/weight isn't matched by anything else. I'm on my forth in 12 years, only one of the three failures was complete, the other two were usable, one for several trips after it started bulging. It seems those issues have been dealt with by the recent designs which use a button style construction (Think Chesterfield furniture) rather than tubes. I'm hoping my Sea to Summit, with a lifetime guarantee, will last better than the others (Big Agnes and Exped)

[RobinS]

You ask about a winter mat, but only down to minus 3, that is actually three season range, we happily use our Nemo Tensor insulated mats colder than that (along with three season sleeping bags).
If you want more insulation, but durable why not do what we used to do for proper winter camping, on snow etc. Ordinary thermarest with an "old school" Karrimat underneath - durable and cheap, and really good insulation from frozen ground. The karrimats are a bit bulky (mine is a smaller 3/4 size), but very light.

[Sweep]

You ask about a winter mat, but only down to minus 3, that is actually three season range, we happily use our Nemo Tensor insulated mats colder than that (along with three season sleeping bags).
If you want more insulation, but durable why not do what we used to do for proper winter camping, on snow etc. Ordinary thermarest with an "old school" Karrimat underneath - durable and cheap, and really good insulation from frozen ground. The karrimats are a bit bulky (mine is a smaller 3/4 size), but very light.

some good/interesting points.
Just looked up that Tensor mat - seems to be £199 - somewhat pricey and at that price would very much hope that it would handle things.
I did use the "old" (a mat from 20 to 25 years ago - not been used much - pretty thin) thermarest plus a solid foam mat underneath but did get cold under 0. Could have been the sleeping bag that was the problem I suppose. (I have an alternative but wasn't with me)

Not sure -3 is 3-season to be honest - some manufacturers of various camping bits might shy away from claiming that.