Wot makes a tent 4 season?

[Sweep]

The spec doesn't actually say but our cycletouring tent is a Force 10 Xenon UL 2 Plus https://www.vango.co.uk/gb/camping-equi ... -plus.html Probably classed as four season by most people, and we have used it months at a time from April to October on tour. It has withstood everything the weather has thrown at it without problems.
For serious weather, winter storms etc however our old mountaineering tent, a Super Quasar https://www.terra-nova.co.uk/products/e ... er-quasar/ is in a completely different league. In that we have gone to sleep at a mountain campsite, slept comfortably all night, and in the morning discovered that almost every other tent on the site has been demolished/abandoned due to a storm that we didn't even notice. With decent pegging this could stand up in a stronger wind than I could!

Ta Robin, tho as I said won't be on top of any mountains.

[pjclinch]

Not all four season tents have the snow skirts. Terra Nova Quasar is a geodesic tent with multiple pole crossing points for rigidity. It has no skirt except in one high altitude variant.

However two mates survived a truly horrendous storm in the Lakes. One had a 3 season hilleberg Nallo 2 tent and the other had a 4 season Terra Nova quasar tent. Which one had an intact tent after that stormy late summer camp?

The 3 season Hilleberg tent! It flexed but stayed intact. The rigid geodesic tent took the full force of the wind and it was enough to break one pole. They finished the night in the hilleberg together I believe.

My point being things aren't so clear cut about seasons.

Hilleberg call the Nallo2 all season which presumably means 4 season. What is 4 season though - 4 seasons in the UK are very different to 4 seasons in Sweden.

There was a general vibe going about in the 90s, at least in the mountaineering and sea paddling communities around me, that a Proper 4 season tent meant a geodesic, and people tended to use Quasars a lot "just in case" because you can get a proper gale any time of year.

The subsequent trend to try things with less armour plating revealed that vibe to be wrong and a well pitched and implemented tunnel will take serious incoming flak. The geodesic will be quieter in a real blow for sure and geodesics are easier to move and pitch on marginal sites, but the tunnel will typically weigh and bulk less at the same space if all else is equal.

Another place a geodesic scores is, as has been noted already, static snow loading. We're in the realm of "not very important" for most of the people most of the time here. I've taken quite heavy snow in a Spacepacker for one night at a time by the simple trick of kicking the side sharply every few hours. Where this starts to be an issue is a base-camp situation, and I'd suggest that snowy base camps aren't that a big a deal to most cyclists. Hille's range of tunnels include models that are a go-to for polar ski touring, so it's a pretty safe assumption they can deal with snow. Hilleberg even make a special sledge pack for easier deployment when ski-touring.

I use a geodesic (Hille Tarra) for paddling. The bulk and weight (about 4 Kg) isn't an issue due to the mode of transport and having something that stands up without guying can be handy on a shingle beach. I can't think why I'd want to take it anywhere by bike though.

Pete.

[Sweep]

thanks for the replies as I pondered folks.

Have just acquired a good condition second hand Snugpak Scorpion 2.

https://www.snugpak.com/scorpion-2

From a test erection over the weekend am pretty confident it will be good for winter.

If anyone has any experience of/thoughts on this tent would of course be interested.

[simonineaston]

Nice looking tent. I've always had a soft spot for that sort of design. TNF did a couple in the '80s - the Tadpole and the Bullfrog. I enjoyed the Tadpole a lot. Light, easy to pitch, good ventilation, it came with me on many of my early trips to northern France.
The truth is, what with tents being so many varied things to so many different users, the 'season' system was just an attempt by a group of makers in the seventies, with the advent of light artificial fabrics and fibreglass poles that were prone to snapping, to guide the potential buyer towards a suitable purchase.
In some ways, it was code for "if you buy that inexpensive light tent you fancy, it'll blow down...if you buy that really heavy expensive tent, it probably won't - don't say we didn't warn you!".
see too Hilleberg's 'label' system here

[RobinS]

Haven't used one, but it looks like a pretty decent weatherproof tent. That pole configuration is pretty strong. Only downside for me would be the lack of a large porch - but if are solo in it that's not a problem. We tour as a couple, so with a two person tent need the porch for kit.

[Sweep]

Haven't used one, but it looks like a pretty decent weatherproof tent. That pole configuration is pretty strong. Only downside for me would be the lack of a large porch - but if are solo in it that's not a problem. We tour as a couple, so with a two person tent need the porch for kit.

yes the porch is quite small and you run the risk of clambering out over your stuff. I prefer my Robens Lodge 2 layout for that as it has two porches, one either side, and when solo you only need one for getting in and out. But I don't think it is quite as suited to 4 season wildcamping as the Scorpion 2.
No great matter for me though - if freecamping somewhere furtive am happy to put a fair bit of my gear outside - all well weatherproofed.

[PH]

Have just acquired a good condition second hand Snugpak Scorpion 2.
https://www.snugpak.com/scorpion-2

Not one I'd sen before, looks like you're well set for anything you're likely to encounter.
The design doesn't tick all my boxes, no reason it should, but I do like a rectangular door.

[Sweep]

Have just acquired a good condition second hand Snugpak Scorpion 2.
https://www.snugpak.com/scorpion-2

Not one I'd sen before, looks like you're well set for anything you're likely to encounter.
The design doesn't tick all my boxes, no reason it should, but I do like a rectangular door.

It's a similar design to the Vango* Vantage refers to upthread.

* Vango calls/has called it various things I think - they probably have a new name for it on standby.

[Sweep]

Have just acquired a good condition second hand Snugpak Scorpion 2.
https://www.snugpak.com/scorpion-2

Not one I'd sen before, looks like you're well set for anything you're likely to encounter.
The design doesn't tick all my boxes, no reason it should, but I do like a rectangular door.

Out of interest, what would be the other boxes you would like ticked, particularly for winter camping if that's what you were referring to.

My impressions of the tent so far are very good, but a caution for anyone considering it - it is tight top to toe. I'm under 5 10 and I am near touching at each end when lying down. In fact, I can see myself kipping with my head slightly bent to one side.
All very odd as Snugpak has always I believe sold a lot to army and ex army folk and I tend to see squaddies as more impressive/bigger specimens than me. Even more bizarre, it's substantially tighter top to toe than the very minimalist (some call it a bivi tent) Snugpack Ionospehere which I have. I've easily put a load of gear, cycling boots and wet clothes, above my head using that.

[PH]

Have just acquired a good condition second hand Snugpak Scorpion 2.
https://www.snugpak.com/scorpion-2

Not one I'd sen before, looks like you're well set for anything you're likely to encounter.
The design doesn't tick all my boxes, no reason it should, but I do like a rectangular door.

Out of interest, what would be the other boxes you would like ticked, particularly for winter camping if that's what you were referring to.

I don't do winter camping so I was talking in more general terms. Two of my favorite features are to sleep across the door and to have two doors/porches. These are personal preferences of course, having had three tents in five years when I started cycle camping, they became essential features when I decided to invest in a better tent, I must have got that right as I've kept this one for ... can't remember, at least 14 years.
Frosty morning
This is as close to a Winter scene as I have, though I think it was May.

[Tangled Metal]

The spec doesn't actually say but our cycletouring tent is a Force 10 Xenon UL 2 Plus https://www.vango.co.uk/gb/camping-equi ... -plus.html Probably classed as four season by most people, and we have used it months at a time from April to October on tour. It has withstood everything the weather has thrown at it without problems.
For serious weather, winter storms etc however our old mountaineering tent, a Super Quasar https://www.terra-nova.co.uk/products/e ... er-quasar/ is in a completely different league. In that we have gone to sleep at a mountain campsite, slept comfortably all night, and in the morning discovered that almost every other tent on the site has been demolished/abandoned due to a storm that we didn't even notice. With decent pegging this could stand up in a stronger wind than I could!

That's the quasar model that snapped a pole in a Lakeland storm when the next door nallo 2 sailed through with just a bit of deformation with each gust that popped back in between.

Elevated pitch with steep hill behind them on two sides, open other two but overall usually escapes most of the storm's ferocity.

I guess there's a randomness to these things too. One storm in that very same location my mate in the super quasar had a very bad night convinced my tent was going to be blown away. It was a barely 3 season Jack wolfskin tunnel tent without any guy lines! I woke up a little later than usual fully refreshed feeling great. Didn't even know there had been a storm. My mate barely slept and kept checking out to see if I was still there all through the storm.

Or the time I was kipping in a storm on top of a Lakeland fell with horizontal rain. A decent night's sleep. I did wake up early but then we turned in before 9pm. I got to see semi geodesic terra nova tents and even the then class leading hilleberg atmosphere getting blown nearly flat. My tarp simply shed the wind with two poles, two guylines and a few more pegs. Anyone know what season rating a flat square of sil-nylon has?

Hilleberg use all season because they have the view that all their tents can survive in winter but not all of their tents can survive all winters. I winter in a lowland, sheltered campsite without snow is not a severe test to a well made tent. An alpine ridge in a winter blizzard or a winter night on the Greenland plateau is of course a little more serious and demanding.

I doubt I'd use a super quasar on winter Greenland camp at altitude. There's a few hilleberg tunnel tents I would consider suitable but perhaps with the added precaution of digging it in a bit with a wind wall and even double poles.

[Tangled Metal]

One last point. I have a Scandinavian tent, a Helsport lofoten, top of the range model. Defined as 4 season but I'd say 4 season Scandinavian valley at a stretch or uk sheltered upland. It's got a very aero shape with really good fabric and poles. At the time top spec poles from one of the two most respected pole manufacturers. Plus a higher than normal diameter pole too I think.

Having said that we've shaken the snow off a summer 5 man family tent and a £70 vango 3 man tunnel with fiberglass poles! Still slept through the night in both those inappropriate winter tents.

Seasons don't mean much but make a guide for people who don't know what they're about in bad weather or winter. Knowledge and experience is more important than slavish following of the seasons guide from brands.

[horizon]

My impression reading the links is that "season" refers to the conditions that the tent is likely to be employed in, though not necessarily completely regardless of the actual season: so a strong gale (in summer), high altitude above the snowline (in summer), torrential rain (in summer), freezing nights (high level in summer, low level in autumn) etc etc might mean you need a "four season" tent in summer/autumn. I don't think it's a bad nomenclature as indeed the worse conditions are generally found in winter but shouldn't be taken too literally. The conditions they don't mention are floods, wildfires and winds that blow trees down on your tent.

I suppose therefore that, even allowing for the difference in seasons, there's a big difference between being caught out in the wilderness and your tent blowing down on Comfy Down Caravan Park (next to your car). Apart from that. I would have thought that theoretically the mimimum requirement must be for a four season tent for any time of the year; in practice of course a festival tent from Millets probably does the trick.

[horizon]

PS Just to add that I couldn't see any great weight penalty on the four season tents so I assume the cash goes into more expensive fabrics, stronger poles and good design. After all, anyone can make a four season tent - it's keeping it light that is the challenge.

[simonineaston]

As a humorous aside, I recall being peeved when snug in the safety of my then new Hilleberg Nallo, in the middle of a nasty storm, the bloomin' thing flapped so much that what with that and the seemingly endless thunder and lightening, I didn't get much sleep. On the plus side, the flooded campsite I woke up in, nice and dry, confirmed the Nallo's rep. as being dependably weatherproof And so it was I took to having with me some of them squishey foam ear plugs from then on...