Why do they do it?

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cycle tramp
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by cycle tramp »

What I would say is that despite mjr assertions that the road doesn't exist 'as its being dug up', riding on the footway is covered both in the highway code and acts of Parliament thereof, and in each case there is no allowance for the actual state of the road or causes to say that you can ride on the footway when the road has been closed (either in the highway code or by law)

It will be argued that the footway is next to the road and having a raised kerb de-marks it as such, and that it remains a footway before, and during the road closure and after the road has been re-opened to traffic.

Further to this the road closure affects all traffic including cycles but that in usual practice those using cycles would be permitted to use pedestrian routes if they dismounted and pushed their cycles.

The signage is clear to those who can read English and whilst it fails to mention the specifics, logistic limitations will mean that there are only several types of signage that can be carried in vehicles at anyone time and these tend to use 'catch all' phrases.

The signs are not personal and having been in contact with road teams in the past, they are generally indifferent to traffic in all its many forms. To suggest otherwise possibly identifies a chip on your shoulder rather than theirs.
Last edited by cycle tramp on 4 Aug 2022, 4:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anyone comparing my cycling speed with an animal is talking complete molluscs :-D
cycle tramp
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by cycle tramp »

mjr wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 12:22am
cycle tramp wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 10:46pm
Secondly I pose more of a risk by cycling along the footpath than walking even at the same speed. When I walk I can stop in the next stride, if I cycle I have to wait a second or two before the brakes function, that could be another 2 or 3 feet, by which time I could be on top of them...
I can't stop next stride (if I try, I will probably fall over, especially if I am leaning on a bike instead of a walking stick) and you really should fix your brakes if they really take two seconds to function. That's bordering on having ineffective brakes, which is illegal.
The delay to which I was referring to was that of human reaction time, as evidenced in the highway code stopping distances. That's the delay from your eyes to your brain to you hands to your brakes. I believe a different part of your brain is used for walking and its more instinctive and has a great reaction time.
Anyone comparing my cycling speed with an animal is talking complete molluscs :-D
Carlton green
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by Carlton green »

squeaker wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 2:54pm
Paulatic wrote: 3 Aug 2022, 1:44pm Yes I agree those signs certainly do micturate folk. If they were used when totally necessary then cyclist might take more heed of them.
As a parish councillor, I can tell you that those signs were put there at request after an elderly pedestrian had a near miss followed by verbal abuse from someone riding a bike along there.
I haven’t read the full thread but the above contains the root of the issue. Basically a ‘Richard cranium’ on a bike who should have either walked or, failing that, very carefully ridden the section showing deference to pedestrians. Sometimes I might discreetly cycle in some quite and pedestrianised place where I’m not supposed to cycle, it’s never been an issue because: I go very slow (hint: engage a low gear); I get off whenever there’s a pedestrian in sight; I give pedestrians plenty of space; and I make a point of being polite to any pedestrian that I meet. It really ain’t rocket science.

‘Unnecessary’ signs do tick me off, but on the other hand if folk weren’t told not to do particular things then a proportion would behave without any thought for the potential consequences of their actions … and having the signs there helps with accountability if needed.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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squeaker
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by squeaker »

thirdcrank wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 7:30am
I hope you won't be discouraged from keeping us updated with this, although I also hope that the roadworks will be completed soon.
As the elderly pedestrian reported to me
'Last week I was nearly run over by cyclists using the pavement alongside the caged road works by the junction of Maudlin Lane and Clays Hill, as they cycled towards Clays Hill.

I said they should dismount but abuse was hurled at me as the cyclists failed to stop, and I was told to read the Highway Code, which I did on returning home. Of course it is illegal to ride on the pavement!
'

(Please don't reply that clearly she wasn't run over so it was OK :roll: )

The works themselves are assuming epic proportions: this being the 3rd time (or is it the 4th, I've lost count) that the power company has endeavoured to replace this section of high voltage power cable. Previous efforts have been scuppered by a blocked duct (oily goo from the 60 year old cable being replaced), heavy rain (the only credible diversion route was flooded to sufficient depth to break motor cars, and the pedestrian route wasn't much better) and Covid 19.

After much faffing (and Covid related delays after the holes had been dug) the replacement cable was pulled through, then found to be faulty (insulation fault) and needing replacement :roll: This cable had other ideas though, and got stuck while it was being pulled out :oops: (It's about 300m long.) Another hole has been dug to access the cable and cut it in half so it can be extracted. Cutting work stopped today when the battery powered disc cutter ran out of charged batteries...

The larger scheme that this section is part of was originally due to be complete by 11 August. Should I be worried that an extended TTRO has been granted to 9 September :?: :?
"42"
cycle tramp
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by cycle tramp »

squeaker wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 7:13pm
thirdcrank wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 7:30am
I hope you won't be discouraged from keeping us updated with this, although I also hope that the roadworks will be completed soon.
As the elderly pedestrian reported to me
'Last week I was nearly run over by cyclists using the pavement alongside the caged road works by the junction of Maudlin Lane and Clays Hill, as they cycled towards Clays Hill.

I said they should dismount but abuse was hurled at me as the cyclists failed to stop, and I was told to read the Highway Code, which I did on returning home. Of course it is illegal to ride on the pavement!
'

(Please don't reply that clearly she wasn't run over so it was OK :roll: )

The larger scheme that this section is part of was originally due to be complete by 11 August. Should I be worried that an extended TTRO has been granted to 9 September :?: :?
Thanks for the update. It's appreciated. If you do speak with the resident again about the issue - could you pass on my apologies. I'm very sorry that she received the abuse. It sadded me to hear of this incident. I am genuinely sorry.

Personally I wouldn't be over worried about the TTRO extention. If works get extended by the company then it kinda runs into the other work schedules that they have planned and they only have so many workers. The extra time could mean that they're just being cautious with the employee time they have.
Anyone comparing my cycling speed with an animal is talking complete molluscs :-D
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Paulatic
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by Paulatic »

Carlton green wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 6:16pm Sometimes I might discreetly cycle in some quite and pedestrianised place where I’m not supposed to cycle, it’s never been an issue because: I go very slow (hint: engage a low gear); I get off whenever there’s a pedestrian in sight; I give pedestrians plenty of space; and I make a point of being polite to any pedestrian that I meet. It really ain’t rocket science.
This very much so.

I find it strange the OP would like to make an example of two, more than likely responsible cyclists, pictured on what looks a quiet path. Especially when looking on Streetview you can view similar to what those two can probably see. A straight short piece of path to rejoin the road.
1BF683DA-A59C-44B1-ABAB-9178DC73AEA2.jpeg
See the dropped kerb and seeing that view I’d cycle it. Wouldn’t you?
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mattheus
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by mattheus »

cycle tramp wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 9:35pm
squeaker wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 7:13pm
thirdcrank wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 7:30am
I hope you won't be discouraged from keeping us updated with this, although I also hope that the roadworks will be completed soon.
As the elderly pedestrian reported to me
'Last week I was nearly run over by cyclists using the pavement alongside the caged road works by the junction of Maudlin Lane and Clays Hill, as they cycled towards Clays Hill.

I said they should dismount but abuse was hurled at me as the cyclists failed to stop, and I was told to read the Highway Code, which I did on returning home. Of course it is illegal to ride on the pavement!
'

(Please don't reply that clearly she wasn't run over so it was OK :roll: )

The larger scheme that this section is part of was originally due to be complete by 11 August. Should I be worried that an extended TTRO has been granted to 9 September :?: :?
Thanks for the update. It's appreciated. If you do speak with the resident again about the issue - could you pass on my apologies. I'm very sorry that she received the abuse. It sadded me to hear of this incident. I am genuinely sorry.
Did I miss some posts? Was it you that hurled abuse and nearly ran this poor person over?
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squeaker
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by squeaker »

In juxtaposition, here's another sign associated with the same roadworks, also widely ignored :roll:
20220805_112703~2.jpg
"42"
Gee
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by Gee »

I’d have just cycled on regardless. I might have slowed down a bit if there were a people about.

That sign only offers ‘advice’ anyway.

Seems a bit pedantic to even think of getting off walking 10 paces and getting on again. The pedestrian’s not by any chance called Victor Meldrew is he. I don’t think I’d have abused him, I might have laughed a bit but I’d have pretty much ignored him/her.
DaveReading
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by DaveReading »

mjr wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 12:22amNo-one notices people behaving well as much as they notice the ninjas jumping off the pavements into traffic.
That's not actually an argument against setting a good example. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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mjr
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by mjr »

squeaker wrote: 5 Aug 2022, 3:07pm In juxtaposition, here's another sign associated with the same roadworks, also widely ignored :roll:
20220805_112703~2.jpg
It doesn't look like that one is being used correctly either, or is there some reason we can't see why motorists shouldn't use the right-hand half to overtake, when clear of oncoming traffic?
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mjr
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by mjr »

DaveReading wrote: 5 Aug 2022, 7:11pm
mjr wrote: 4 Aug 2022, 12:22amNo-one notices people behaving well as much as they notice the ninjas jumping off the pavements into traffic.
That's not actually an argument against setting a good example. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I wasn't arguing against behaving well, only that it is vanishingly unlikely to have the desired effect.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Can I ask if the pedestrian involved in the incidence had insurance, paid road tax and had a licence plate? If not she should have!

Sorry! I just felt it should have the other arguments that motorists use to complete the list as it seems to me that as cyclists on this forum we're getting little too close to the cyclist hating motorists but with pedestrians as the focus of our hate or ignorance.

On a more serious point. In what way does the hierarchy of responsibility apply here?

On a completely off topic comment. The Isle of Arran has a green transport map/leaflet. On the closeup maps of the main villages there's some cartoon images of guidance for cyclists. From a graphic of the hierarchy to CTC guidance on road position for groups of cyclists. Most unusual to see that information added to route maps for green transport. If you go that way try to pick one up. Pirnmill village store still had a few.
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mjr
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by mjr »

Tangled Metal wrote: 5 Aug 2022, 8:24pm On a more serious point. In what way does the hierarchy of responsibility apply here?
Cyclists should give way to pedestrians. If there isn't 2m width, probably best to stop and wait for them to pass.

To me, that failure to give way and the verbal abuse are far worse offences than the entirely reasonable wish to ride where there is still enough highway width to do so and get out of everyone's way more quickly. Both of the first two are offences whether or not there are signs saying not to. Maybe enforce those laws before putting up code-breaching signs about other things.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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tim-b
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Re: Why do they do it?

Post by tim-b »

Hi
Maudlin Lane, Bramber?
That's subject to a road closure which has a public notice available online. If it's subject to a closure then that section is no longer a road, including the foopath, because the closure stretches from building line to building line
Highway Act 1835 says, "If any person shall wilfully ride upon any footpath or causeway by the side of any road..." doesn't apply because it's legally not a road
Common sense should apply and ride/walk as you would on a shared path. If pedestrians are around then wait/walk because they are more vulnerable in the general hierarchy
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~
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