Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

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thirdcrank
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by thirdcrank »

If the Home Affairs Select Committee has a scintilla of wit between them they will seize this golden opportunity to get the views of somebody with a breadth of experience of policing in GB and AFAIK has no personal interest in the selection of the next commissioner.

I think it's incorrect to try to detect criticism of Cressida Dick in what he says (IIRC he has formally complained about how she was driven out) and it's futile in that imo the aim must be to put things right for the future. I presume the Grauniad piece is only a few quotes and it would be very interesting to know what he thinks about things like the continuing national and London-specific responsibilities of the Met. If anybody has a link to a report in Hansard or similar of the Select Committee hearing I'd be grateful to have that.

One fun fact about Stephen House is that he left the police when he stepped down from Police Scotland and a bit like Cressida Dick was headhunted for the post in the Met. I've not bothered with the "runners and riders" tipped to replace CD but one being mentioned at one point was Lynne Owens, who faced some controversy during her police career and retired from the NCA on health grounds last year.

Some of the stuff quoted in the link sounds to reflect the predictions made by Robert Mark over four decades ago - as anybody who has read his autobiography will know.

If what I'm saying is not clear, I think nobody can successfully take on this role in its present form. Perhaps the most urgent issue is the Met Commissioner being responsible to both the Home Secretary and the Mayor of London. Historically, the Home Secretary has been the police authority for the Metropolitan Police since its formation in 1829. That is unique: other territorial forces had a local police authority, which was replaced quite recently by police and crime commissioners. To give a similar role to the London mayor without revising the role of the Home Secretary was imo a significant error - as Boris Johnson demonstrated when he was mayor.
Nearholmer
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by Nearholmer »

Spot on ThirdCrank.
thirdcrank
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by thirdcrank »

In other news, I see this

Rudy Giuliani revealed on The Masked Singer TV show

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61173811

Some may remember that when former Home Secretary, Teresa May changed police regulations to allow a wider pool of candidates for chief officer posts RG was touted as a good example, based on his response to "9/11" when mayor of New York. Perhaps he's preparing to save the capital
thirdcrank
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by thirdcrank »

It seems the deadline for applications for the job was yesterday - 4 May. There doesn't seem to have beenmuch media speculation about this and it will be interesting to see who has applied. The ideal candidate would probably have an excellent knowledge of the ins and outs of the Met, without being tainted by having worked there. A mythical creature if ever there was one. And that's before knowing how to bend to the will of both the home secretary and the London mayor, neither of whom seems to have a clear idea of what they really really want
Jdsk
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by Jdsk »

"White, male field likely in search for new Met head as frontrunner steps aside":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... t-applying

"Met police commissioner: likely candidates to succeed Cressida Dick":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ssida-dick

Jonathan
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Sweep
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by Sweep »

Jdsk wrote: 5 May 2022, 7:53am "White, male field likely in search for new Met head as frontrunner steps aside":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... t-applying
mm - guardian at it again with that headline.
cressida was I believe female gay.
Sweep
thirdcrank
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by thirdcrank »

I doubt the Grauniad has any better idea than anybody else but, imo, the point is being entirely missed. The chattering classes seem to agree that reform is needed but they seem to be arguing for more of the same - continuing just as before. Assuming that somebody else could achieve what Cressida Dick did not seems naïve to me and when politicians make that assumption they are imo irresponsible. At the very least, substantial organisational changes are needed which would be beyond the powers of the commissioner. Although the most obvious and pressing are particular to the Met., others affect policing throughout England and Wales and perhaps the whole of the UK
thirdcrank
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by thirdcrank »

Psamathe wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 2:23pm Despite Ms Dick's denials about institutional issues, her temproary "stand-in" seems to think differently
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/20/met-police-culture-problems-not-just-a-few-bad-apples-says-acting-head wrote:Met police culture problems ‘not just a few bad apples’, says acting head
...
The acting head of the UK’s biggest police force has admitted that cultural problems in the force are “not a few bad apples” and called for a change in procedures to allow managers to speedily sack errant officers.
...
Ian
For anybody interested in all the evidence heard by the Home Affairs Committee - rather than an eye-catching headline plucked out by the Grauniad - here's the official transcript. There's quite a bit so not for anybody with the attention span of a gnat. A couple of points made slipped under the committee radar.

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralev ... 10114/pdf/
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Cugel
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by Cugel »

thirdcrank wrote: 5 May 2022, 9:18am I doubt the Grauniad has any better idea than anybody else but, imo, the point is being entirely missed. The chattering classes seem to agree that reform is needed but they seem to be arguing for more of the same - continuing just as before. Assuming that somebody else could achieve what Cressida Dick did not seems naïve to me and when politicians make that assumption they are imo irresponsible. At the very least, substantial organisational changes are needed which would be beyond the powers of the commissioner. Although the most obvious and pressing are particular to the Met., others affect policing throughout England and Wales and perhaps the whole of the UK
That's a very clear-sighted observation. Large institutions, with a set of traditions both dense and wide, tend to have an immense inertia (or is it momentum). The point is, though, that it takes an immense "force" to significantly change their cultural nature and general direction.

Our society tends to make two erroneous assumptions in these matters: that we can "change the culture"; that it just takes one heroic leader to do so. A lot of history is written like this - strong men or women who single-handedly achieve some sort of "progress". But is this in any way an accurate characteristic of how history unfolds? For example, in respect of WWII was it Churchill, Stalin or Eisenhower wot won it ..... ? Or is there a description and analysis of all of WWII's events that provides a far more convincing history, involving rather more than a couple of heroes or so?

Moreover, how much of the changes to social institutions, policies and other achievements or failures found throughout human history are in the control of any humans at all, individually or en-masse? Social, political & cultural events are, in one way, always implemented by humans - but does this happen in any truly controlled way or are the humans more like elements contributing to the weather, at the mercy of a physics (metaphysics too , for humans) that we can never fully understand and cannot really control in any competent fashion?

To me, human behaviour has far more in common with the behaviour of raindrops and clouds than it does with a clever machine, computer or other model suggesting logical or rational abilities to control things so as to produce intended events and only intended events. We don't change culture, culture changes us - including the bigwigs as well as the ciphers of any human organisation or institution.

What chance, then, of changing the nature and behaviour of a large organisation like The Met, especially as it's enmeshed in an even larger organisation called the UK, itself enmeshed in a set of even larger organisations constituting "globalism"? I would say: very little indeed. The huge ship "Metropolitan Police" may have a new captain ordering "left hand down a bit" but it'll take decades to see a change of direction, which will probably result in a hit on the other side of the London "pier" (society) that it was going to swipe & damage, no matter what.

The Navy Lark but with policemen .... and no comedy whatsoever.

If only the necessary changes were both "obvious" and possible. To hope so is only human but to assume so is just more human hubris.

Cugel aka Jeremiah
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
thirdcrank
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by thirdcrank »

A point I've made several times across several related threads is that if it's accepted that fundamental change needs to be made, then that's a policy - political - matter for politicians. Chief police officers generally and the Metropolitan commissioner in this specific case have only so much discretion to implement change. In Sir Stephen House, they have somebody with deep and broad policing experience, who sounds to be prepared to share it frankly. It's hard to see any real attempt by the committee members to benefit from that experience to improve things for the future.
Jdsk
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 5 May 2022, 7:53am "White, male field likely in search for new Met head as frontrunner steps aside":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... t-applying

"Met police commissioner: likely candidates to succeed Cressida Dick":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ssida-dick
It's Rowley:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... tan-police

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by Jdsk »

"Three of the most senior officers at the scandal-hit Metropolitan police have announced their departures five weeks before a new commissioner is due to take over tasked with making sweeping changes."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -take-over

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote: 8 Aug 2022, 8:04pm "Three of the most senior officers at the scandal-hit Metropolitan police have announced their departures five weeks before a new commissioner is due to take over tasked with making sweeping changes."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -take-over

Jonathan
If I may ask, what are you implying?
Jdsk
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by Jdsk »

It sounds to me as if the new Commissioner has been negotiating very hard before arrival.

There's been a lot of discussion in this forum about whether cultural change is possible without structural change. It will be a lot easier for the new Commissioner if they have been able to find and appoint a senior team who have the same appetite for change.

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Re: Dame Cressida Rose Dick (What do we know)

Post by thirdcrank »

Thanks for that.

I think that some of the departures were planned some time ago. In particular, AFAIK, Stephen House never applied to succeed Cressida Dick, in particular it's 40+ years since he joined the police (although his service was broken.)

You are right there's been a lot of discussion about the need for structural change but - unless I missed it - when I asked for suggestions on here, there was only silence. Nobody seemed prepared to stick their neck out. As I type this I've remembered that somewhere on this thread or another, I linked to the report of Stephen House's evidence to the Home Affairs Committee suggesting IIRC it was worth reading but nobody saw anything worthy of discussion.

Unless he intends to take a much more prominent stance than any Commissioner in recent history, Mark Rowley is on a hiding to nothing, with changes needed completely beyond his authority to introduce.

As has already been posted (IIRC) he's responsible both to the home secretary, whoever that may be in due course, and to an unclear extent to the Mayor of London, except that the Police and Crime Commissioner for the MPD is one of his deputies. And they answer in some shape or another to another committee. These people tend to be short of plans beyond their own political ambition.
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PS

I see the Daily Telegraph is going with its own version of this today

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... ida-dicks/

The main story in there seems to be that Mark Rowley wants Lucy D'Orsi as his deputy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_D%27Orsi
==========================================================
PPS How wrong can you be?

It seems it's going to Lynne Owens, who retired on health grounds from her post as top dog at the National Crime Agency last September.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62481836
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