Sticking with 9-speed?

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UpWrong
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Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by UpWrong »

When I got into 'bents, 9 spd was well established and I've pretty much stocked up on 9-speed parts over the years. My Catrike 700 came as 10 speed. I enjoyed the 11-36 cassette but not the difficult to use, one-time use only, 10 speed quick links. There's not much price difference between 9 and 10 speed parts now, and most new chainrings are 9/10 speed compatible.

I upgraded my Nazca Paseo to 10 speed in order to use a 42T extender sprocket with a compact double crankset. Shifting with Shimano 10 spd Dynasys is ok, certainly better than Shimano 9-spd which for me has always lacked precision. I still think the SRAM X series 9 spd is superior though. In fact, so much so that I'm questionning the need to go to 10 speed. I like the 10 spd 11-36 cassette, but 9 speed 12-36 is available and is pretty nice in terms of spacing. I notice that SRAM now spec the X-5 as 36T compatible whereas an RD extended link was previously required (SunRace do them at low cost). Hence I can't see much point moving to 10 speed. 11 speed is another matter. The 11 spd 11-42 cassette really means you don't need a triple anymore, and 11-speed chain is lighter so makes a useful weight saving on recumbents with their long chain runs. So I'm kind of thinking, stick with 9 speed untill 11-speed parts become better value.
Last edited by UpWrong on 9 Aug 2022, 12:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
rotavator
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by rotavator »

That is interesting. I am using Shimano 9 sp casettes and RDs on two bikes and the shifting is rarely perfect despite spending time and money on adjusting cable tension, new cables, new outers, new shifters including trying non-indexed thumb shifters and trying different RDs. Alignment of the RDs looks OK but I am contemplating buying a tool to check it.

I had a quick look at the reviews of the SRAM X-5 9sp RD on CRC and noticed that few customers have complained that they are fragile and poorly made but the majority are satisfied, not that I have much faith in such reviews. Does anyone on here have experience of SRAM 9 sp shifters and RDs? Do they give more reliable shifting than Shimano's RDs?

Also it looks as if 2 x 11 gearing, with say 44 and 28T chainrings and a 11-42T casette would be a reasonable way to replace a 3 x 9 set-up, all-be-it with a bigger change in cadence when front shifting with the former than the latter.
UpWrong
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by UpWrong »

rotavator wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 12:28pm That is interesting. I am using Shimano 9 sp casettes and RDs on two bikes and the shifting is rarely perfect despite spending time and money on adjusting cable tension, new cables, new outers, new shifters including trying non-indexed thumb shifters and trying different RDs. Alignment of the RDs looks OK but I am contemplating buying a tool to check it.

I had a quick look at the reviews of the SRAM X-5 9sp RD on CRC and noticed that few customers have complained that they are fragile and poorly made but the majority are satisfied, not that I have much faith in such reviews. Does anyone on here have experience of SRAM 9 sp shifters and RDs? Do they give more reliable shifting than Shimano's RDs?

Also it looks as if 2 x 11 gearing, with say 44 and 28T chainrings and a 11-42T casette would be a reasonable way to replace a 3 x 9 set-up, all-be-it with a bigger change in cadence when front shifting with the former than the latter.
I think the poor precision of Shimano 9-speed is due to its shifter 2:1 cable pull ratio. SRAM X-n is 1:1 which is best, Shimano Dynasys is 1.4:1 which is in-between.

I currently have two bikes with X-9 RDs and one with an X-5. No problems with these. I have an old X-5 which was scraped in a spill and was ok afterwards for a long time, then the cable clamp bolt refused to tighen. However, I have just tried a new bolt and it seems fine now.
hercule
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by hercule »

I have a similar dilemma - though I’m sticking with 9 speed as a step up to 10 or 11 seems unnecessary expense. The rubber grips on SRAM X7 twist shifters on my Fuego have turned to a sticky mess and an attempt to patch them up with old inner tube led the tube fusing to the grip before I’d even got it on. I like grip shifters especially on my bike’s aero bars and I have long thought the 1:1 cable pull ratio of SRAM made for reliable shifting on bents and tandems. I have a pair of Shimano 9 speed shifters from another project but that will mean a new rear mech. You can get X7 grip shifters on eBay but how do I know they’re not going to dissolve? New 9 speed stuff seems impossible to get these days!
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by Tigerbiten »

I agree with either 9 speed or 11 speed are probably the best.
But I run mostly IHG, 2x 2x 14.

I wear out my full height Rohloff twist shifter every 8k-10k miles.
I put it down to the sweat off my hand reacting with the rubber under UV light.
It either gets too smooth to shift gear in the wet or goes soft and tacky.
I then cut the old rubber grip off and slide a new bar end grip on.
Softer grips are easier to fit but don't last as long, harder grips are the opposite.
Once on, cut to size/length.

Luck ......... D
UpWrong
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by UpWrong »

I'm ok with the X5 trigger shifter. I don't seem to have the same problem with grip shifters. Do you wear gloves?
Stradageek
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by Stradageek »

hercule wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 9:26pm The rubber grips on SRAM X7 twist shifters on my Fuego have turned to a sticky mess and an attempt to patch them up with old inner tube led the tube fusing to the grip before I’d even got it on.
I try to catch them before the 'sticky mess' stage (i.e. when just tacky) and roll the inner tube over after a liberal dusting with talc.
hercule wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 9:26pm I like grip shifters especially on my bike’s aero bars and I have long thought the 1:1 cable pull ratio of SRAM made for reliable shifting on bents and tandems.
I tend to agree but I've had some minor issues even with SRAM kit cured by regularly changing cables and outers
hercule wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 9:26pm New 9 speed stuff seems impossible to get these days!
The Shimano compatible 'Centera' 9-speed shifters are widely available but I can't find replacement SRAM compatible 9-speed grip shifters though they are listed by SRAM - I now know how valuable my one spare set is :D
toontra
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by toontra »

I have SRAM 9-speed on my utility/touring bike. I can go literally years of daily use without having to adjust the gearing, including dismantling/rebuilding the bike several times for overseas flights. As has been said, it's the 1:1 pull ratio that makes it far superior to Shimano.
UpWrong
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by UpWrong »

I can't determine whether the X-5 has always been 36T cassette compatible or whether a change was made.
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/rd-x5-a1
Back in the day, compatibility was always listed as 11-34. I have an old one in my spares box so I may find out one day. As I said, a Sunrace hanger extender should sort it if needed.
hercule
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by hercule »

I’ve invested in a pair of X5 trigger shifters which you can at least get new.

My experience with melting grip shifters seems to be not uncommon, but I have grip shifters on my Trice and they seem completely unaffected.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by roubaixtuesday »

We run our tandem on 9 speed; 46/36/24 and 11-36, on Sora 3000

Both front and rear dérailleurs are slightly beyond their nominal capacity but the whole thing works perfectly, never had any issues at all.

I think it's pretty hard to get an equivalent range on 11 speed double and I can't see any benefit from it.

Grip shifters are the work of the devil!
UpWrong
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by UpWrong »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 11:55am We run our tandem on 9 speed; 46/36/24 and 11-36, on Sora 3000

Both front and rear dérailleurs are slightly beyond their nominal capacity but the whole thing works perfectly, never had any issues at all.

I think it's pretty hard to get an equivalent range on 11 speed double and I can't see any benefit from it.

Grip shifters are the work of the devil!
There's something odd about the Sora 3000 RD. It's a medium cage derailleur but it's listed with a capacity of 43T. I have one and the distance between the jockey wheels is 1" less than a long cage Deore and 0.75" less than a long cage SRAM X9. I think the listed capacity is very optimistic!

I guess you keep out of the top 3 small cogs when on the inner ring?
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by roubaixtuesday »

UpWrong wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 12:28pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 11:55am We run our tandem on 9 speed; 46/36/24 and 11-36, on Sora 3000

Both front and rear dérailleurs are slightly beyond their nominal capacity but the whole thing works perfectly, never had any issues at all.

I think it's pretty hard to get an equivalent range on 11 speed double and I can't see any benefit from it.

Grip shifters are the work of the devil!
There's something odd about the Sora 3000 RD. It's a medium cage derailleur but it's listed with a capacity of 43T. I have one and the distance between the jockey wheels is 1" less than a long cage Deore and 0.75" less than a long cage SRAM X9. I think the listed capacity is very optimistic!

I guess you keep out of the top 3 small cogs when on the inner ring?
I went from 32 to 36 at back and 26 to 24 at the front to expand the range. I was expecting some problems, but none materialised.

I would never intentionally use the two smallest cogs.
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Cowsham
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by Cowsham »

Just bought a 9 speed cassette bike for my electric bike build -- I'm used to 11sp on XT mtb and 105 road bike but I think 9sp will be sufficient for the electric bike.
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UpWrong
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Re: Sticking with 9-speed?

Post by UpWrong »

There is an immense variety of ratios available still with 9 speed cassettes.

Bog standard Shimano HG 11-32T and SRAM is - 11 / 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 21 / 24 / 28 / 32. I find the 18/21 shift a bit gappy

and for 11-34 Cassettes their usual ratios are - 11 / 13 / 15 / 17 / 20 / 23 / 26 / 30 / 34. I find the 17/20 shift rather gappy.

So I've decided to try a Tifosi cassette 11/34t (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-34). The first and 9th cogs can be treated as underdrive and overdrive ratios, leaving 7 gears with more equitable spacing perhaps. I recall quite liking an SA 8-speed IGH which also had bigger gaps for top and bottom ratios.
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