The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Nearholmer
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by Nearholmer »

Is there any way to get to full facts about this?

One possibility that occurred to me as I was bumping along some of these sorts of paths earlier is that the EU funds were granted under a ‘tourism’ provision, rather than, say, an ‘active travel’, or ‘environmental’ provision.

I know from small previous involvement with EU grants that they operate a number of ‘themes’, things like ‘economic development through tourism’, ‘energy efficiency’, ‘health improvement’ etc, and each has a ‘jam jar’ of grant money. If you are granted funds from jam jar X, you have to demonstrate benefits against the theme related to that jam jar, rather than anything else, although you get ‘bonus points’ for schemes that deliver benefits against more than one theme.

My personal take on it is that, while I am a sort-of ‘gravel’ cyclist, to use fashionable language, I’d not be at all keen to see ‘pure hobby’ stuff actually abstracting from utility stuff, and as it happens I think half the fun is working out a route from OS maps anyway.

So, is this abstracting, or is it in parallel? Is there a way to the brass tacks facts?
Nearholmer
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by Nearholmer »

Looks very much like it - well found!

If it is, my guess was right, the jam jar is comes from is one marked “experiential tourism development”, rather than anything else, so it isn’t abstracting from utility cycling. We should be happy the brass has been spent on cycling at all, because it could have gone on rock climbing, or white-water rafting (although probably neither of those in Norfolk!).

Anyway, there won’t be any more grants from the EU!
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mjr
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by mjr »

Nearholmer wrote: 21 Jul 2022, 6:12pm Looks very much like it - well found!

If it is, my guess was right, the jam jar is comes from is one marked “experiential tourism development”, rather than anything else, so it isn’t abstracting from utility cycling. We should be happy the brass has been spent on cycling at all, because it could have gone on rock climbing, or white-water rafting (although probably neither of those in Norfolk!).

Anyway, there won’t be any more grants from the EU!
Most of the greenways mentioned would also be good for tourism. This project isn't awful but it could have delivered much more benefit if it wasn't so niche.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bsteel
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by Bsteel »

mjr wrote: 20 Jul 2022, 7:28pm
Nearholmer wrote: 20 Jul 2022, 7:25pm Is that €6M figure plucked from the air, or does it have a substantive basis?
It's an estimate based dividing the €16m for three routes mentioned above by three and rounding up.
Looking at the EXPERIENCE website, the breakdown appears to be a total of €23.3m for the project over 6 regions ( 3 in England and 3 in France) . Assuming that was equally split that's €3.8m per region. From which Norfolk then spent €0.7 m of EU funding on the Bure valley path upgrade.
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/local-coun ... th-8608002
Alongside the Rebellion Way, Cycling UK seem to have worked with Guy Kesteven to document a group of circular rides around the county
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/exper ... rfolk-bike
These include descriptions and GPX files. How much that cost and where the other money is being spent, I haven't seen documented.
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mjr
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by mjr »

Bsteel wrote: 22 Jul 2022, 9:46am
Alongside the Rebellion Way, Cycling UK seem to have worked with Guy Kesteven to document a group of circular rides around the county
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/exper ... rfolk-bike
These include descriptions and GPX files. How much that cost and where the other money is being spent, I haven't seen documented.
We need signs and infrastructure more than an invisible network of descriptions and GPX files, the cyclinguk page only lists things in the eastern half of the county and there's no routes aimed at non-MTB/gravel. It's great for a certain type of tourist but rather niche. I suspect the NCC department involved is "Norfolk Trails" because the lack of hard surfaces, signs or anything much in the West is usual for them.

I've not ridden the BVR this year so won't comment beyond observing that walkers get waymarking but cyclists do not and nothing in the report says it's an all-weather surface, despite the councillor talking about "all year round". After so many years, I have little confidence that councillors realise gravel isn't good cycling in a wet winter or spring.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bsteel
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by Bsteel »

mjr wrote: 22 Jul 2022, 10:10am I've not ridden the BVR this year so won't comment beyond observing that walkers get waymarking but cyclists do not and nothing in the report says it's an all-weather surface, despite the councillor talking about "all year round". After so many years, I have little confidence that councillors realise gravel isn't good cycling in a wet winter or spring.
Unless they're hugely behind schedule I think it's fair to say that it is not really a path upgrade, more a cosmetic makeover for the stations. The new surfacing covers just the approaches to the stations, maybe 10% of the path length and there is still no signage for cyclists.
dnrc
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by dnrc »

This all sounds great.

I live in Norwich and have been thinking about a shortish trip this year. Read about this and got briefly excited about doing it.

But it's not released until October.

Wonderful, thanks. Don't let people know about it while its still summer and camping would be enjoyable..............
awavey
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by awavey »

but wouldnt most of the work have been done on the route by now ? they arent going to pop up and sign the whole thing over a weekend, and October isnt that far off, plus I presume like was it the west kernow way came out a bunch of youtubers had done route previews to tie in with the launch, and September the weather is normally pretty stable around here still.

as for the BVR, its been a while since I did it but I cant imagine we'd have been able to follow it to Aylsham if there hadnt been signs (beyond the part that follows the line itself because thats obvious), there arent many road signs in Norfolk full stop, but I dont recall us ever getting to a point having to use a mobile phone map to find where to go next...thank god since there was no data service.

my biggest issue with it was it felt too narrow to be a bike path & walkers route, and it was lucky we were off season as I cant imagine its much fun in the height of summer,

as for the gravel, my view is always it depends what they mean by gravel, because it rarely means those nice fire roads you get in Thetford, or converted old railway routes like it should, it means some route someone dropped a bunch of ballast rocks on and you need some fatboy tyre MTB to ride
simonhill
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by simonhill »

BVR ?

I presume (from Mr Google) this is the Bure Valley Path.
awavey
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by awavey »

yes the Bure Valley Railway (BVR) path, its an off road shared cycle/walking route that links Wroxham to Aylsham and mostly follows the line of the railway. Its popular with walkers, and people hopping off/on the trains to explore the route and walk in the countryside with dogs, and most of the local cycling hire places also recommend it as a route to ride.

certainly when we rode it our experience was its a nice cycle route thats a bit different with occasional small trains passing you,but a bit short if you are a regular cyclist wanting to explore further, but there were certainly bits where there wasnt much more room than for walking single file, so you add people on bikes to it and it all becomes abit congested, and as I said we went off season so it was quieter, Id imagine its horrendous at the moment, like most of the Broads is this time of year.

but its going to form part of this new Rebellion Way route, and part of it is theyve Id guess tried to make the route in places more hard wearing by adding gravel surface, and signs, though really you just follow the railway anyway.
Nearholmer
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by Nearholmer »

I can imagine that causing a few minor contretemps, because a significant part of the bike-packing community is made up of the young, super fit, do the Cantii Way, SDW and KAW as an unbroken run with ten minutes sleep in a bin bag under hedge, can’t stop, I’ve got a record to break demographic.
Psamathe
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by Psamathe »

mjr wrote: 21 Jul 2022, 9:56pm ...
Most of the greenways mentioned would also be good for tourism. This project isn't awful but it could have delivered much more benefit if it wasn't so niche.
Is there any proposed monitoring of the use of the finished project? If it is a complete white elephant will anybody ever know or will Cycling UK just go on singing their own praises however unused it is?

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mjr
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by mjr »

Psamathe wrote: 13 Aug 2022, 5:38pm
mjr wrote: 21 Jul 2022, 9:56pm ...
Most of the greenways mentioned would also be good for tourism. This project isn't awful but it could have delivered much more benefit if it wasn't so niche.
Is there any proposed monitoring of the use of the finished project? If it is a complete white elephant will anybody ever know or will Cycling UK just go on singing their own praises however unused it is?
Because it's Interreg money, I expect there's monitoring, but because it's the UK's last EU Interreg money for a while, I doubt anyone will care and maybe the monitoring report won't even get published online.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bsteel
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Re: The Rebellion Way (Norfolk)

Post by Bsteel »

awavey wrote: 13 Aug 2022, 1:27pm but its going to form part of this new Rebellion Way route, and part of it is theyve Id guess tried to make the route in places more hard wearing by adding gravel surface, and signs, though really you just follow the railway anyway.
Apart from, I couldn't spot any new signage and unless you knew it was shared access it appears to be for pedestrians. The new surface barely extends beyond stations and crossings so more targeted at walkers than cyclists. It seems a shame as being short it would be a nice ride for a mixed ability group.
awavey wrote: 13 Aug 2022, 1:27pm but there were certainly bits where there wasnt much more room than for walking single file, so you add people on bikes to it and it all becomes abit congested, and as I said we went off season so it was quieter, Id imagine its horrendous at the moment, like most of the Broads is this time of year.
A lot of it is still single file and would benefit from the hedges and brambles trimmed back as in places you're pushed right against the track side fencing.
mjr wrote: 13 Aug 2022, 8:12pm Because it's Interreg money, I expect there's monitoring, but because it's the UK's last EU Interreg money for a while, I doubt anyone will care and maybe the monitoring report won't even get published online.
You'd hope that as Norfolk was the lead partner there would be some budget and requirement for them to publish something.
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