Close Pass of the Day .....

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
DaveReading
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by DaveReading »

foxyrider wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 9:46pmIf you are doing less than 10mph it is quite legal to cross a solid white to overtake if it is safe to do so.

In theory the following vehicle should wait until their speed has dropped to 10mph before attempting said manouver but in the real world 99% don't abide by that or the if it is safe to do so bit.
Er, no.

The 10 mph max refers to the vehicle being overtaken, not the overtaker.
Pebble
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by Pebble »

DaveReading wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 11:41pm
foxyrider wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 9:46pmIf you are doing less than 10mph it is quite legal to cross a solid white to overtake if it is safe to do so.

In theory the following vehicle should wait until their speed has dropped to 10mph before attempting said manouver but in the real world 99% don't abide by that or the if it is safe to do so bit.
Er, no.

The 10 mph max refers to the vehicle being overtaken, not the overtaker.
how do you assess if the cyclist you are about to overtake is below 10mph unless you have also dropped your speed to around that level.
DaveReading
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by DaveReading »

Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:10am
DaveReading wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 11:41pm
foxyrider wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 9:46pmIf you are doing less than 10mph it is quite legal to cross a solid white to overtake if it is safe to do so.

In theory the following vehicle should wait until their speed has dropped to 10mph before attempting said manouver but in the real world 99% don't abide by that or the if it is safe to do so bit.
Er, no.

The 10 mph max refers to the vehicle being overtaken, not the overtaker.
how do you assess if the cyclist you are about to overtake is below 10mph unless you have also dropped your speed to around that level.
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but find using judgement and experience helps.
Jdsk
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by Jdsk »

DaveReading wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:50am
Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:10am
DaveReading wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 11:41pm Er, no.

The 10 mph max refers to the vehicle being overtaken, not the overtaker.
how do you assess if the cyclist you are about to overtake is below 10mph unless you have also dropped your speed to around that level.
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but find using judgement and experience helps.
Yes. I can't imagine that the authors intended anything else.

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Vorpal
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by Vorpal »

Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:10am
DaveReading wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 11:41pm
foxyrider wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 9:46pmIf you are doing less than 10mph it is quite legal to cross a solid white to overtake if it is safe to do so.

In theory the following vehicle should wait until their speed has dropped to 10mph before attempting said manouver but in the real world 99% don't abide by that or the if it is safe to do so bit.
Er, no.

The 10 mph max refers to the vehicle being overtaken, not the overtaker.
how do you assess if the cyclist you are about to overtake is below 10mph unless you have also dropped your speed to around that level.
Maybe dropping your speed low enough that you can judge is a good idea?
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thirdcrank
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by thirdcrank »

I believe this is the actual regulation:

It's TSRGD Schedule 9.

Part 6 Item 23 illustrates diagram 1013.1 which is the central double white line and variants.

Part 7 paragraph 9 of the same schedule defines what the diagram 1013.1 means at some length. I'd say DaveReading is right. Whatever common sense may say, the only speed defined in mph by the regs is the 10mph for a road maintenance vehicle, cyclist or horse to be overtaken.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ule/9/made
Pebble
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by Pebble »

DaveReading wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:50am
Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:10am
DaveReading wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 11:41pm
Er, no.

The 10 mph max refers to the vehicle being overtaken, not the overtaker.
how do you assess if the cyclist you are about to overtake is below 10mph unless you have also dropped your speed to around that level.
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but find using judgement and experience helps.
from my experience as a cyclist not many drivers are able to judge as well as may be they think they can.
awavey
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by awavey »

Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 1:03pm
DaveReading wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:50am
Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:10am
how do you assess if the cyclist you are about to overtake is below 10mph unless you have also dropped your speed to around that level.
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but find using judgement and experience helps.
from my experience as a cyclist not many drivers are able to judge as well as may be they think they can.
I guarantee not a single driver who overtakes you on a solid white line ever considers that 10mph part, they just see bike must overtake regardless.
thirdcrank
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by thirdcrank »

A fundamental point of our system is being overlooked here.

There are times when it's dangerous to be on the "wrong" side of the road: briefly, when there's a poor view of the road ahead. This seems a simple concept but some don't understand it. To get the message across, we devised a system of "double line" lane markings. The significance of those lines is then defined with acres of regulations (I don't know how to do a word count) so complicated that they become unintelligible to some and a source of loopholes for others. The exact opposite of the intention.
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Cowsham
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by Cowsham »

hoogerbooger wrote: 9 Aug 2022, 9:35pm (Cowsham: I realise your experience was scary and likely to generate fruity language in the moment....but could you consider editing your post)
Done ---- sorry --- was still a bit cross from the incident and to be fair most drivers around this area are very courteous, though that's the second time this year ( viewtopic.php?t=146468&start=150#p1677153 ) I've had a problem and both times it was young women drivers they seem to be in a wile hurry these days.
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DaveReading
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by DaveReading »

awavey wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 6:55pm
Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 1:03pm
DaveReading wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 8:50am
Well I can't speak for anyone else, but find using judgement and experience helps.
from my experience as a cyclist not many drivers are able to judge as well as may be they think they can.
I guarantee not a single driver who overtakes you on a solid white line ever considers that 10mph part, they just see bike must overtake regardless.
What's your evidence for that?
awavey
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by awavey »

DaveReading wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 4:18pm
awavey wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 6:55pm
Pebble wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 1:03pm
from my experience as a cyclist not many drivers are able to judge as well as may be they think they can.
I guarantee not a single driver who overtakes you on a solid white line ever considers that 10mph part, they just see bike must overtake regardless.
What's your evidence for that?
mine would be Id always expect driver to pause before an overtake in that situation to correctly judge the speed of the cyclist, but Ive never encountered any driver pausing in those situations, even when Ive been going down a hill hitting the speed limit, driver still overtakes. and Ive never met a driver who has ever said they only overtake if the cyclist is going less than 10mph, or who recognised that was even part of it, you speak to them, theyll swear blind they can overtake slow moving traffic, cyclists are slow, ergo they overtake.

YMMV though, so whats your evidence they do ? :D
DaveReading
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by DaveReading »

awavey wrote: 13 Aug 2022, 1:33pm
DaveReading wrote: 11 Aug 2022, 4:18pm
awavey wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 6:55pm

I guarantee not a single driver who overtakes you on a solid white line ever considers that 10mph part, they just see bike must overtake regardless.
What's your evidence for that?
mine would be Id always expect driver to pause before an overtake in that situation to correctly judge the speed of the cyclist, but Ive never encountered any driver pausing in those situations, even when Ive been going down a hill hitting the speed limit, driver still overtakes. and Ive never met a driver who has ever said they only overtake if the cyclist is going less than 10mph, or who recognised that was even part of it, you speak to them, theyll swear blind they can overtake slow moving traffic, cyclists are slow, ergo they overtake.

YMMV though, so whats your evidence they do ? :D
Well I do, for a start, so that's enough to invalidate your "not a single driver" guarantee.

I'd be happy to agree that some drivers probably don't, though.
MikeF
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by MikeF »

My main concern is that drivers give me enough room. If the all protective safety boxes become dented in doing that I'm not so concerned. :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Close Pass of the Day .....

Post by Phil Fouracre »

Mike F - Yup! Completely agree. From the sound of these threads I don’t seem to get that many close passes. What amazes me is, as you say, they miss me by crossing completely to the other lane, oblivious to vehicles coming the other way.
One of the scariest/most stupid passes I’ve had, was a young woman with two kids, giving me loads of space, on a blind bend, and (I guess) even telling the kids to wave to me🙈🙈
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
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