Lighter Spa Touring build

[pwa]

Can I slightly hijack this thread to ask about the Elan and using it with front panniers? I currently have a steel Croix De Fer and have happily toured on that with 4 panniers, but I've always rather fancied a Ti frame... I assume that standard Elan carbon forks are not really suitable, I seem to remember a steel option? Does that change the way the bike feels in a big way?

Do I detect purse strings weakening?

[531colin]

Can I slightly hijack this thread to ask about the Elan and using it with front panniers? I currently have a steel Croix De Fer and have happily toured on that with 4 panniers, but I've always rather fancied a Ti frame... I assume that standard Elan carbon forks are not really suitable, I seem to remember a steel option? Does that change the way the bike feels in a big way?

There should be a steel fork option....same length and offset, so steering feel unchanged, with low-rider bosses.
Steering is deliberately fairly calm, so front panniers will be OK.

[gloomyandy]

There should be a steel fork option....same length and offset, so steering feel unchanged, with low-rider bosses.
Steering is deliberately fairly calm, so front panniers will be OK.

Thanks Colin!

Do I detect purse strings weakening?

It is certainly very tempting!

[fatboy]

I have 3 Spa bikes, 1 steel tourer (computer bitza bike), 1 Ti tourer and 1 steel audax. The Ti tourer be the last to go if I needed to drastically downsize. The key improvement that I made was switching to Marathon Supreme which changed the bike completely. If I do an Audax on it I take off the rack.

Don't get me wrong I like my audax bike a lot but the Ti tourer is still my favourite, so comfortable yet no slouch (and I like the 72 degree seat angle), oh and it looks gorgeous! It's worth noting I'm what the Americans call a Clydesdale but for an oldun I'm quite quick.

[mcthebike]

Can I slightly hijack this thread to ask about the Elan and using it with front panniers? I currently have a steel Croix De Fer and have happily toured on that with 4 panniers, but I've always rather fancied a Ti frame... I assume that standard Elan carbon forks are not really suitable, I seem to remember a steel option? Does that change the way the bike feels in a big way?

Has anyone fitted the steel fork to the Elan and toured with four panniers?

[yostumpy]

All these folks saying how wonderful the Elan is, but are you talking about the TI or 725?

[Ianwhitwell]

Hi

I was looking to buy an 'everyday bike' that I could use for occasional touring and visited SPA to try their Wayfarer. I did like it, but they didn't have my size in stock and after many months of waiting ( covid and Taiwan, from what I can gather). When I rang up the last time the owner suggested I try the 725 Elan, and I could put a steel fork on it for front panniers. This I did ( Spec below) and I've had it a couple of years and have never regretted the purchase. I would def go and try one out if your interested, they had a big range to try.

My spec to cover daily rides and tours with full panniers. I specifically wanted a front triple, but they had some excellent double ring options as well. I liked the fact it was almost like a custom build (frame excepted)

Frame 725 Elan 105 5700 Build 52cm
Colour Blue
Fork Steel fork
Headset FSA Orbit ITA
Bottom Bracket Shimano R60
Chainset TD2 165mm 46/36/24 all black
Front Wheel Deore M6000 blk/XR-26RTS black 32h
Rear Wheel Deore M6000 blk/XR-26RTS black 36h
Spokes Silver spokes
Cassette 10spd HG81 11/36
Tyres Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 folding
Tubes Schwalbe SV17
Chain KMC X10-93
Front Mech Shimano 105 5700
Rear Mech Shimano Deore M592 black
Gear Shifters Shimano 105 5700 mechanical
Brake Levers Shimano 105 5700 mechanical
Brake Calipers TRP Spyre
Saddle Brooks B17 black
Seat Pin FSA SL-280
Collar Clamp Spa
Headset Spacer Black Full length steerer (cut on collection)
Stem FSA OS-168mm 80mm
Handlebars FSA Wing Compact 42cm
Bartape/Grips Spa Cork with EVA Gel blk
Gel pads below bartape
Mudguards SKS Chromoplastic 45mm black
Front Rack Tubus Tara blk
Rear Rack Tubus Logo blk

[st599_uk]

pedalsheep wrote:
SNIP Tried an Elan and it just immediately felt right.
SNIP. Love it! It's exactly how Colin describes it.
SNIP it's lovely!

I agree fully with the above. Travelled over for the World Championships and detoured to Spa for a test ride. I have my spa Elan set up for lightish touring with 35mm tyres, 45 mudguards, dynamo and a rack. I Audax with a large Carradice bag and tour with two Ortlieb small panniers on the rack. It has done five 200 km to date and is very comfortable. I’m 78 kg and a slow 11 ish hour 200 km rider but this bike matches my lightweight racer for speed at this distance and is much more comfortable. Uphill it definitely feels it weighs more on the steeper parts but I put it on the 30 at the front and 34 at the back and can go up anything. Anyone tried 38 mm or greater tyres on the bike?
P.S. My default Audax saddle was a Selle San Marco Rolls but the Spa saddle supplied has been very comfortable and with 5000+ km on it is staying insitu.
Thank you Colin for a job / design well done.

I've got beefy tyres on mine - 38s I think, possibly 40s - Schwalbe G-one allrounds.

Super comfy, no speed drop at the speeds I ride. Dulls out road noise, can ride any single track easily.

[pwa]

Back when I was doing Audax I had a tourer and an Audax bike, and at that time the wheels were not inter-changeable because the hub width (OLN) was different. I couldn't just pop the Ultegra hubs into the tourer frame, which required my wider Deore XT hubs. Has this difference in hub width gone with more recent disc brake bikes?

[531colin]

Back when I was doing Audax I had a tourer and an Audax bike, and at that time the wheels were not inter-changeable because the hub width (OLN) was different. I couldn't just pop the Ultegra hubs into the tourer frame, which required my wider Deore XT hubs. Has this difference in hub width gone with more recent disc brake bikes?

I'm def. too old for this!
Current rim-brake bikes are all 132.5mm OLN so they will take either 130 or 135mm hubs, with a bit of twiddling with gears and brakes.
According to my old drawings, we started doing this in about 2010/2011.
I think you are right, and all traditional Q/R disc brake rear hubs are 135.
Through axles are a closed book to me, we need somebody younger!

[scottg]

2003 & 2005 road bikes both 135mm oln, rim brake.
2000 All Rounder, 135mm, rim brake.

9s speed hubs were the reason in all cases,
asymmetric rear rims and 135 hub were the way
make the wheel side to side tension differential less bad.

[yostumpy]

Hi

I was looking to buy an 'everyday bike' that I could use for occasional touring and visited SPA to try their Wayfarer. I did like it, but they didn't have my size in stock and after many months of waiting ( covid and Taiwan, from what I can gather). When I rang up the last time the owner suggested I try the 725 Elan, and I could put a steel fork on it for front panniers. This I did ( Spec below) and I've had it a couple of years and have never regretted the purchase. I would def go and try one out if your interested, they had a big range to try.

My spec to cover daily rides and tours with full panniers. I specifically wanted a front triple, but they had some excellent double ring options as well. I liked the fact it was almost like a custom build (frame excepted)

Frame 725 Elan 105 5700 Build 52cm
Colour Blue
Fork Steel fork
Headset FSA Orbit ITA
Bottom Bracket Shimano R60
Chainset TD2 165mm 46/36/24 all black
Front Wheel Deore M6000 blk/XR-26RTS black 32h
Rear Wheel Deore M6000 blk/XR-26RTS black 36h
Spokes Silver spokes
Cassette 10spd HG81 11/36
Tyres Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 folding
Tubes Schwalbe SV17
Chain KMC X10-93
Front Mech Shimano 105 5700
Rear Mech Shimano Deore M592 black
Gear Shifters Shimano 105 5700 mechanical
Brake Levers Shimano 105 5700 mechanical
Brake Calipers TRP Spyre
Saddle Brooks B17 black
Seat Pin FSA SL-280
Collar Clamp Spa
Headset Spacer Black Full length steerer (cut on collection)
Stem FSA OS-168mm 80mm
Handlebars FSA Wing Compact 42cm
Bartape/Grips Spa Cork with EVA Gel blk
Gel pads below bartape
Mudguards SKS Chromoplastic 45mm black
Front Rack Tubus Tara blk
Rear Rack Tubus Logo blk

any chance of some photos, and a weight of bike (but will be less as it is small)

[531colin]

2003 & 2005 road bikes both 135mm oln, rim brake.
2000 All Rounder, 135mm, rim brake.

9s speed hubs were the reason in all cases,
asymmetric rear rims and 135 hub were the way
make the wheel side to side tension differential less bad.

Ancient history time!!
As far as I recall, Shimano 7 speed MTB cassette hubs were always 135mm.....and the subsequent 8 speed MTB hubs were 135 also.
As the number of gears increased, the chains got narrower, so the 8 speed hubs became 8,9,10 speed....more sprockets in the same space.
"Road" 8,9 10 speed hubs were 130mm.
Which is why most "tourers" use MTB hubs....very little to lose, and a bit to gain from less dish.

[Sweep]

Ancient history time!!
As far as I recall, Shimano 7 speed MTB cassette hubs were always 135mm.....and the subsequent 8 speed MTB hubs were 135 also.
As the number of gears increased, the chains got narrower, so the 8 speed hubs became 8,9,10 speed....more sprockets in the same space.
"Road" 8,9 10 speed hubs were 130mm.
Which is why most "tourers" use MTB hubs....very little to lose, and a bit to gain from less dish.

Yep and hybrids in the 90s I think all pretty much adopted 135 - which is why my various conversions of several 90s 7 speed hybrids to 8 and 9 speed tourers and wotnottery have been so straightforward.

(tho until I ordered some Spa wheels for the first of those I hadn't even thought about the issue - luckily a nice person at Spa suggested I go and do some measuring before I ordered the wheels - though they did suggest that I would find it to be 135.)

[Ianwhitwell]

Hi

I was looking to buy an 'everyday bike' that I could use for occasional touring and visited SPA to try their Wayfarer. I did like it, but they didn't have my size in stock and after many months of waiting ( covid and Taiwan, from what I can gather). When I rang up the last time the owner suggested I try the 725 Elan, and I could put a steel fork on it for front panniers. This I did ( Spec below) and I've had it a couple of years and have never regretted the purchase. I would def go and try one out if your interested, they had a big range to try.

any chance of some photos, and a weight of bike (but will be less as it is small)