SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by 531colin »

That photo of Stock Lane I would be looking to ride on the far right; to the right of wjh's bike there looks to me to be a passable narrow track, presumably where people walk. You can ride in tractor ruts, right until they get deep enough so "ground level" pushes your feet out of the cleats. don't get much time to enjoy the view, though.

That bit of Dolemoor lane I would go through reasonably carefully, because you can't see "what lies beneath", preferably with disc brakes of carbide rims, plain ali rims wear fast in those conditions.

The flooded one as before I would try to skirt round the flood walking on the grass, with the bike in the water if necessary.
fbs
Posts: 38
Joined: 11 Sep 2007, 11:00pm

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by fbs »

531colin wrote: 19 Apr 2022, 12:17pm
In the dry, thats also almost a road, so just about any bike will do.

Much the same comments apply as above; it depends how bad the track is (and what sort of bad!) and how much of the ride it forms. In general I reckon a mile off road is "worth" 2 miles on road, but its ever so variable. I try to avoid carrying the thing!

When I'm "just riding along" I have a tiny bit of weight on my hands....just enough to steer with, without holding on to the bars. When I put a bit of effort in, (on a rising road for example) the weight comes off my hands. Uphill I'm pulling up and back on the bars. If you have a lot of weight on your hands it makes any rattling about from the track a great deal worse. (push the saddle back to take weight off your arms.)

I set the saddle low enough so that I can pedal in contact with the saddle but with no real weight on the saddle....on anything but a smooth track my weight is mainly on the pedals.

So riding along a bumpy track the bike moves underneath me a bit like a rocking horse; as the front wheel goes into a hole I let it drop in and "pay out" my arms; as it comes back up I flex my elbows almost like lifting the front wheel out. Then the back wheel drops down into the same hole. The trick is to let the bike do the jolting about, while you "float" above it.

Of course, you may be going faster than me!

Cue lots of people telling me thats not the way to do it; but in any case, have a look at my DIY bike fit piece linked below, and try it; its free and it might help. Mark and photo everything before you move the saddle etc.

Agree it is a 'road' in the dry, the picture shows the best surface bits. About 12 miles of rough stuff there and back.

Over the years I have also found the tiny bit of weight method on the hands helps considerably. The 'rocking horse' is also my tactic with rough track riding (is there any other sane way?) although I stand on the pedals to achieve that. You have now made me wonder if I have my saddle too high. I have always been a 'tip toe' rider, the flat foot position has just never seemed right.

Faster than you, highly unlikely :) even before Covid. I think I am about decade younger than you, somewhat of a Clydesdale even when not carrying unnecessary lard. Five weeks post Covid any hill climbing ability I had (pretty essential in Mid wales) has now become a memory. Covid has removed about 5mph off my average speed. Post ride fatigue and recovery time is much greater just to add to the fun.

Off to look at the bike fit info, never to old to learn :) The 853 Galaxy lives on, yet to be replaced.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by 531colin »

fbs wrote: 19 Apr 2022, 10:34pm ..............Over the years I have also found the tiny bit of weight method on the hands helps considerably. The 'rocking horse' is also my tactic with rough track riding (is there any other sane way?) although I stand on the pedals to achieve that. You have now made me wonder if I have my saddle too high. I have always been a 'tip toe' rider, the flat foot position has just never seemed right............
With absolutely no evidence, I assume its better to ride "in contact" with the saddle .....I would expect better traction and more control, and its maybe even a bit easier because I can sit down properly if the track improves even for just a yard.

My saddle is unfashionably low, I'm a "foot level at the bottom" rider. If I'm working at it, i always drop my heel and often sit back in the saddle a bit...both of these things give greater effective saddle height, and greater knee extension, all else being equal.

You may have started already, but I always recommend putting a bit of tape 20mm above the frame, so you can lower the saddle a measured 10mm and see how it goes.....and get back exactly where you started!

Steve Hogg is always worth a read! https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... n-it-be-2/
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by reohn2 »

^^^ Spot on!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
wjhall
Posts: 265
Joined: 1 Sep 2014, 8:46am

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by wjhall »

wrote: 19 Apr 2022, 7:47pm ....
The flooded one as before I would try to skirt round the flood walking on the grass, with the bike in the water if necessary.
Unfortunately the grass is interrupted by the county's first attempt at cutting a drain channel, so it's wellingtons, wet feet, acrobatics, or mount up for the wild charge, or careful charge, according to taste.

I was probably wrong in my second thoughts about the representativeness of Stock Lane, most of the byways here see farm use, so where the ground is soft they will be deeply rutted like Stock Lane. Where they are metalled or the ground is hard, they will resemble the rougher sections of Woodend Lane, at best.
220319-6179 Woodend Lane.JPG
mcthebike
Posts: 5
Joined: 7 May 2020, 5:25pm

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by mcthebike »

531Colin said
"If I'm going on a day ride on the road which is long or hilly, but includes a short length of track, then its Elan .......
........ If I'm doing a moving-on tour taking in as many long tracks as I can (high cup nick; high street in the Lakes) then for me its my good old Roughstuff bike, although if I were to replace it I would have a Wayfarer for the disc brakes."

So where does the Spa Cycles d'Tour fit in?
I've got a Long Haul Trucker which has served me well but I've decided I want disc brakes for four pannier touring. I want to buy a disc frameset. Should it be the d'Tour or the steel Elan with a steel fork.
peetee
Posts: 4292
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by peetee »

mcthebike wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 6:40pm I want to buy a disc frameset. Should it be the d'Tour or the steel Elan with a steel fork.
I have a steel touring frame made by Nigel Dean in traditional sized 753 tubing. It’s a great bike and fully kitted out for front and rear panniers. The brakes are cantilever type but work very well. However it’s a bit limited when considering non-tarmac routes as it will only accommodate 30mm tyres and I am of an age now when I want something a bit shorter for a more upright position. So I started to hunt around for a gravel-ready frame with disc brakes and found a Spa Elan. It’s only a 54cm but the head tube is the same length as my 60cm Dean as it benefits from the sloping top tube. It has carbon forks which don’t have fitting for panniers and even if there were kits available I wouldn’t trust that material with any mountings so I’m going to order some steel forks.
All up weight as a unloaded bike is considerably more than the Dean but it is not a burden in the least. The super-low gearing and far more relaxed seated position and deeper tyre section has revolutionised my riding style from a ‘press-on, fitness experience in every ride’ to a ‘sit up and enjoy the journey’ kind of thing.
All I need to do now is find a saddle that’s comfortable for more than three hours. :roll:
2AB7636A-B29A-4214-B076-3094E488B485.jpeg
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by 531colin »

mcthebike wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 6:40pm 531Colin said
"If I'm going on a day ride on the road which is long or hilly, but includes a short length of track, then its Elan .......
........ If I'm doing a moving-on tour taking in as many long tracks as I can (high cup nick; high street in the Lakes) then for me its my good old Roughstuff bike, although if I were to replace it I would have a Wayfarer for the disc brakes."

So where does the Spa Cycles d'Tour fit in?
I've got a Long Haul Trucker which has served me well but I've decided I want disc brakes for four pannier touring. I want to buy a disc frameset. Should it be the d'Tour or the steel Elan with a steel fork.
Bear in mind I'm now 75 and a long time away from Spa; take everything I write as something to be discussed with Spa!

Spa have test bikes for customers to ride; phone up and check what they have in your size before travelling.

Wayfarer is an "expedition" type bike, for big tyres and rough roads. It probably won't fit a road double chainset because their Q factor is quite small, the chainstays have to be "waisted" in to clear big tyres and narrow cranks.
D'Tour and Elan both have the "waisted" stays, but neither will fit as big tyres as Wayfarer. If you look up the geometry tables on Spa website, I think you will find Elan has the shortest "front centre"....(distance from BB axle to front axle) so if you don't like toe overlap but want big tyres and mudguards you might have to avoid Elan, at least in the small sizes.
mcthebike
Posts: 5
Joined: 7 May 2020, 5:25pm

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by mcthebike »

531colin wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 4:34pm
mcthebike wrote: 16 Aug 2022, 6:40pm 531Colin said
"If I'm going on a day ride on the road which is long or hilly, but includes a short length of track, then its Elan .......
........ If I'm doing a moving-on tour taking in as many long tracks as I can (high cup nick; high street in the Lakes) then for me its my good old Roughstuff bike, although if I were to replace it I would have a Wayfarer for the disc brakes."

So where does the Spa Cycles d'Tour fit in?
I've got a Long Haul Trucker which has served me well but I've decided I want disc brakes for four pannier touring. I want to buy a disc frameset. Should it be the d'Tour or the steel Elan with a steel fork.
Bear in mind I'm now 75 and a long time away from Spa; take everything I write as something to be discussed with Spa!

Spa have test bikes for customers to ride; phone up and check what they have in your size before travelling.

Wayfarer is an "expedition" type bike, for big tyres and rough roads. It probably won't fit a road double chainset because their Q factor is quite small, the chainstays have to be "waisted" in to clear big tyres and narrow cranks.
D'Tour and Elan both have the "waisted" stays, but neither will fit as big tyres as Wayfarer. If you look up the geometry tables on Spa website, I think you will find Elan has the shortest "front centre"....(distance from BB axle to front axle) so if you don't like toe overlap but want big tyres and mudguards you might have to avoid Elan, at least in the small sizes.
I have a titanium Elan and I love it. Size 58 and with my size 12 shoes and my cleats fully back I just tip the mudguard if I've 38 tires on. I don't find this a problem. The Ti Elan has a carbon fork and I'm not changing that.
I tour with front and rear panniers on the Surly lht but I've become unhappy with the brakes after prolonged exposure to the Elan disc brakes. I want a tourer to do mostly tarmac touring but sometimes I go on gravel like on the Camino in Spain. I never mind walking if need be. The Wayfarer is now out as I can't see myself on a prolonged rough stuff tour and they don't have my size. So my choice is the steel Elan with steel forks or the d'Tour. Will the waisted stays be a problem as I'll be fitting a triple?
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by 531colin »

No problems with a triple.
I think you should go and ride the D'tour......I love my Elan, but I wouldn't want 2, I would want a slightly different one if for no other reason than for it to be a bit different! D'Tour is longer wheelbase but not long trail; for my taste its stable enough so that I can look over the hedge without ending up in the ditch, without needing a weeks notice of a corner coming up. For me, Elan wouldn't be an obvious choice for a camino with 4 panniers....but YMMV!!
mcthebike
Posts: 5
Joined: 7 May 2020, 5:25pm

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by mcthebike »

YMMV ! I learn something new every day.
Thanks for your advice. Dtour looks likely choice.
Grumps
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Dec 2013, 9:30am

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by Grumps »

Hi. Was it ever revealed where the Ti ones were made? I have one, some sort of prototype maybe as there was obviously not enough crank clearance and it has been dressed crudely. Fella I bought it from said it came new like this. It's a 60cm disc audax (I think).
My reason for asking is that I DO care where things are from. Not from a quality point but ethically. I want no goods from communist or non democratic countries. Its not easy and I'm sure I fail daily but I try. So, was my frame made in Taiwan (I'll keep it) or China, it can go?
Really not after an argument, each to their own moral compass, just an answer. Maybe I should just ask SPA but fell over this thread researching? Rest of my stuff is British Steel or Italian (groups) although made in China on Columbus minimal forks has sent me looking! Best Regards.
brumster
Posts: 510
Joined: 8 Sep 2009, 7:50pm

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by brumster »

Slightly OT, but the new Spa Rove looks interesting.
richardb
Posts: 4
Joined: 8 Jan 2023, 1:45pm

Re: SPA CYCLES STEEL TOURING FRAMES

Post by richardb »

mcthebike wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 5:56pm I have a titanium Elan and I love it. Size 58 and with my size 12 shoes and my cleats fully back I just tip the mudguard if I've 38 tires on. I don't find this a problem.
Same here - Elan Ti 58cm and big feet. No toe overlap on 28mm tires with mudguards. Brilliant bike.
Post Reply