Dangers of DIY car brake maintenance

[pete75]

Really? Does any of the Tesla range have drum brakes. The humble Fiat 124 had four wheel disc brakes in 1966 as did my little 1978 Alfasud

Electronic handbrakes are good. No forgetting to put the handbrake on when parked and they hold the vehicle when stopped on a hill releasing when the accelertaor is pressed. Since 2013 we've had five cars with them, four Mercedes E class and a Skoda. They've all been problem free, apart from one little glitch on the Skoda , cleared and fixed via the OBD2 port.
Most modern vehicles require software for servicing if only to read any error codes. It's not expensive either - just a wireless OBD2 connector and a free or low cost Android phone app. A lot easier than having to mess about replacing handbrake cables when they break.

It probably costs less to install a solenoid to activate the parking brake than to fit a handbrake lever, cables, and linkages .

You mention two exceptions to my "powerful" comment. I should have been far more pedantic, and used words like 'performance', 'sporting', 'oddball', 'fast' and more for accuracy. To your 124 and Sud there's a smattering of other Alfas, the Rover P6, Saab 99 and 900, Citroën's GS and CX. Can you think of any more?

Your last comment is bang on, it is cheaper to fit electric handbrakes than a lever, mounting, cables etc. - for the manufacturer. I needed a handbrake cable last year, for the first time I can remember, it cost well under £40 including fitting. I know of too many people who've had bills the best part of £500 to sort electric handbrakes out on relatively young cars.

Those you mention are also relatively low powered, family cars from the 60s and 70s except the Citroens,which some here may call oddball, though the French wouldn't and some of the Alfas which were very high performance cars indeed and also very expensive. I suppose the Rover moved towards performance in the P6B version witha V8 engine.

If you're talking about performance, sporting and prestige cars from that era with discs there's Jaguar, all the Italian exotics, a lot of Mercs, Aston Martin, Rolls, Bentley etc

I suppose one of the problems with drum brakes is there isn't enough room in modern wheels to fit big drums. When cars had big wheels they had big drums - look at the drum size on this pre war Alfa Romeo Lungo.

[Biospace]

I suppose one of the problems with drum brakes is there isn't enough room in modern wheels to fit big drums. When cars had big wheels they had big drums - look at the drum size on this pre war Alfa Romeo Lungo.

Yes, totally, wheel size. Even when wheels were bigger even than that beautiful Lungo, they often filled them with the biggest brakes possible, needed for spirited driving. Absolutely beautiful pedal feel from large drums, you can feel everything.

Citroëns aren't oddball, too right, they're highly logical, just different. The P6 and GS were both originally marketed as quality sporting saloons for younger, cash-rich sorts, however apparently it was elderly, keen motorists who bought them, wrecking their image!

[Mike_Ayling]

Mick took his car to the Toyota dealer.

I am a Toyota fan.

I'm a fan of the utter reliability and the build quality, but not a fan of their design ............. only experience is of our 2014 Yaris Hybrid.

Excellent car in many ways, but there are quite a few issues.
Wheel lock is terrible. Worst car ever.
Internal storage. Worst car ever.
It gets filthy on the rear due to the shape and the "nooks and crannies" at the rear end. Worst car ever.
There's a "pocket" at the front of the rear wheelarches that fill with muck. Never seen that on a car before.
The visibility out of the front and sides for parking is terrible. Worst car ever.
The info screen can't be turned off without three separate finger dabs. All it would need is an on/off knob.
The headlights only have one bulb. Dipped to full beam is done by re-aiming the lens. The full beam is the same brilliance as the dipped beam. After one bulb blew I bought brighter bulbs. Toyota Opti White ones at £50 a pair. Rubbish! One blew in about six months, and when one blows, you have neither full or dipped on one side. They only sell them in pairs.
Bought better and brighter and far cheaper ones from eBay, and so pleased at the low price, I bought another pair. Three years later, the lights are ok and I haven't need the second set.

The car is excellent in many ways, but rubbish in so many ways too.
I haven't even said all the other issues!

Wheel lock is terrible - same for most front wheel drive vehicles
Poor side vision -happens when the A pillar has to contain a curtain airbag
Been that way with most cars for a while now.
Fifty quid from the dealer for a set of headlight bulbs - well you have worked out the solution to that!

Mike

[Jdsk]

The Toyota Hybrid system is absolutely excellent....

No down-change, no up-change, no gearbox, no hesitation, no clutch, no gearbox (already mentioned that!), no cam belt, no fan belt, no "nothing" and no worries...

My emboldening.

That Toyota has a gearbox, as we discussed in this thread, which includes a fascinating video in which it is disassembled to show how it works:
viewtopic.php?p=1622508#p1622508

Jonathan

[francovendee]

Mick took his car to the Toyota dealer.

I am a Toyota fan.

I'm a fan of the utter reliability and the build quality, but not a fan of their design ............. only experience is of our 2014 Yaris Hybrid.

The car is excellent in many ways, but rubbish in so many ways too.
I haven't even said all the other issues!

The first Yaris are reputedly the best ones, Japanese-built (universally to around 2003-ish) and nothing but a basic, small car built to a high standard. Pushrods instead of a cambelt, superb build quality, I still see an unusually high number of old-style numberplate ones (pre-2001 ish), a friend took his to well over 200,000 miles on it original clutch (and everything else other than exhaust/battery/brakes), having been the car on which he and his brothers learnt to drive.

I think all Yaris models came with a chain driven cam.
Ours ,a second generation model 2008, has never let us down. Still on the original battery.
We had a call to return the car when it was 6 years old to replace part of the fuel injection system. Done free of charge and a loan car supplied.
I was told that taking the car to a main dealer for service meant any small non recall issues that needed attention get done at the next service and the owner isn't even aware of it.

[Cowsham]

Nearly every garage mechanic I talk to over the last 40 years say Toyota is the best car on the road.

That's why when I wanted another CVT car for the wife I bought a yaris. We test drove the hybrid in 2013 and was impressed but when you look at the consumption figures the 1.3 petrol at the time was better so that's what we bought. ( second hand 10 months old )

Great car other than the consumables which I've changed myself I got the Toyota dealer to change the CVT oil which is a bit more involved than you'd think and with the price of the oil I figured best let the experts do it. Took them a few hours to do it. About £200. One Toyota dealer told me the cvt oil should never need changed but after 9 years I thought I'll just do it to be on the safe side.

I got a genuine 61 miles to the gallon on a 370 mile trip with a known quantity of fuel. Most of that was done at 70MPH on the motorway in England / Scotland.

[pete75]

I suppose one of the problems with drum brakes is there isn't enough room in modern wheels to fit big drums. When cars had big wheels they had big drums - look at the drum size on this pre war Alfa Romeo Lungo.

Yes, totally, wheel size. Even when wheels were bigger even than that beautiful Lungo, they often filled them with the biggest brakes possible, needed for spirited driving. Absolutely beautiful pedal feel from large drums, you can feel everything.

Citroëns aren't oddball, too right, they're highly logical, just different. The P6 and GS were both originally marketed as quality sporting saloons for younger, cash-rich sorts, however apparently it was elderly, keen motorists who bought them, wrecking their image!

The GS was a small family car designed to compete with the likes of the Renault 12, not a sporting saloon. The P6 may have been marketed as something sporting but in reality the early models were just family saloons. Wasn't really sporting until they put a Buick V8 in and then only with a manual gearbox barely adequate for the power. Mine was the only car where I had to replace many of the gearbox bearings.

[Biospace]

The GS was a small family car designed to compete with the likes of the Renault 12, not a sporting saloon. The P6 may have been marketed as something sporting but in reality the early models were just family saloons.

You're talking about the market sector the GS occupied on account of its physical size and price, not its marketing. As decision makers and trends changed, it was re-engineered, renamed and marketed as a good value family hatchback for the second half of its life.

[Biospace]

I think all Yaris models came with a chain driven cam.
Ours ,a second generation model 2008, has never let us down. Still on the original battery.
We had a call to return the car when it was 6 years old to replace part of the fuel injection system. Done free of charge and a loan car supplied.
I was told that taking the car to a main dealer for service meant any small non recall issues that needed attention get done at the next service and the owner isn't even aware of it.

Yes, chain cam, not pushrod. I think all the Prius models are chain, also.

I look at some of their newer models and the production quality looks amazingly good even on their cheaper range.

[Jdsk]

I think all Yaris models came with a chain driven cam.
Ours ,a second generation model 2008, has never let us down. Still on the original battery.
We had a call to return the car when it was 6 years old to replace part of the fuel injection system. Done free of charge and a loan car supplied.
I was told that taking the car to a main dealer for service meant any small non recall issues that needed attention get done at the next service and the owner isn't even aware of it.

Yes, chain cam, not pushrod. I think all the Prius models are chain, also.

For modern ordinary small car engines the major alternative to chain drive of the camshafts(s) is belt drive, not pushrods.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

For modern ordinary small car engines the major alternative to chain drive of the camshafts(s) is belt drive, not pushrods.

Jonathan

I was correcting a slip of the keyboard a few posts up when I'd used pushrods to mean 'cambelt-less' rather than saying the chain driven cams are used on Toyota engines (and many more).

Said friend with his well over 200,000 mile 1999 Yaris had previously used a Vauxhall passed on to him from his grandfather, its chain was worn badly by 100,000 despite being serviced as recommended.

[Biospace]

Nearly every garage mechanic I talk to over the last 40 years say Toyota is the best car on the road.

They are very good, but the Koreans appear to be snapping at their heels. I was surprised when I borrowed an old Hyundai many years ago, a people carrier from the late 90s I think with more miles on the clock than most consider usual, it drove very well indeed.

I got a genuine 61 miles to the gallon on a 370 mile trip with a known quantity of fuel. Most of that was done at 70MPH on the motorway in England / Scotland.

That's good, but on similar journeys an Audi estate we had (1.9l engine and no hybrid system) would return between 60 and 70mpg. It returned from Scotland once having averaged a little over 70mpg on the return trip, well loaded. Everyday use was typically 45-55.

The original Honda Insight would reputedly manage 90mpg and more in the right conditions.

Does anyone on the forum have a Prius?

[Cowsham]

Nearly every garage mechanic I talk to over the last 40 years say Toyota is the best car on the road.

They are very good, but the Koreans appear to be snapping at their heels. I was surprised when I borrowed an old Hyundai many years ago, a people carrier from the late 90s I think with more miles on the clock than most consider usual, it drove very well indeed.

I got a genuine 61 miles to the gallon on a 370 mile trip with a known quantity of fuel. Most of that was done at 70MPH on the motorway in England / Scotland.

That's good, but on similar journeys an Audi estate we had (1.9l engine and no hybrid system) would return between 60 and 70mpg. It returned from Scotland once having averaged a little over 70mpg on the return trip, well loaded. Everyday use was typically 45-55.

The original Honda Insight would reputedly manage 90mpg and more in the right conditions.

Does anyone on the forum have a Prius?

We looked at the Prius the same day we looked at the hybrid yaris but the fuel figures on that were even worse. The main problem with the hybrid yaris was not fuel consumption but boot space -- an ordinary yaris is small enough but the hybrid was even smaller.

I worked out that our car will do 70MPG at 60MPH and 60MPG at 70MPH

Drafting big lorries at a safe distance can achieve 90MPG -- if covering a lot of distance this can save considerable fuel. Only the CVT box can achieve that though as the ratio to engine speed is very high. You can be sitting at 70MPH with engine at about 2k revs.

[reohn2]

There's a channel on YT called Customer States or Just Rolled In,it's US based but you wouldn't believe what people get upto maintaining their own vehicles

[axel_knutt]

Electronic handbrakes are good...they hold the vehicle when stopped on a hill releasing when the accelerator is pressed.

That reminds me of an old duffer I saw on Hard Knott, with his engine screaming, and smoke pouring from a clutch that was doing 10,000 miles for every mile the car did.

Nearly every garage mechanic I talk to over the last 40 years say Toyota is the best car on the road.

Toyota and Honda are the only manufacturers that have been in the top 5 of every reliability survey I've ever seen. The others all come and go.